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ChangED
ChangED is an educator based podcast for Pennsylvania teachers to learn more about the PA STEELS Standards and science in general. It is hosted by Andrew Kuhn and Patrice Semicek.
ChangED
What Makes Students Want To Show Up
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What if the most important people in your school system are the ones you rarely see? We sit down with Dr. Michael Heater—former teacher and principal, now an IU coordinator—to unpack how behind-the-scenes educators keep districts moving, support leaders under pressure, and build programs that make students want to show up. From realistic planning to social-emotional wellness, this conversation gets honest about what schools need now and how to deliver it without burning people out.
Mike takes us inside the IU’s “many hats” reality: one hour on comprehensive planning, the next on federal programs, then a call from a principal who needs immediate help. We explore the stage crew analogy—why invisible work matters—and how trust becomes the currency that powers quick pivots. He shares practical strategies for keeping educators’ cups full, including nature-based wellness events, leader networks, and capacity-conscious improvement plans that trade checkboxes for impact.
We also dive into equity across dramatically different districts and the engagement power of esports. Mike’s doctoral research shows how gaming programs spark belonging, communication, and leadership for students who never felt seen by traditional activities. The lesson travels: ask students what they value, then build the door that fits. Whether it’s girls’ wrestling, crochet club, or a first-time league match announced over the PA, connection before content changes everything—attendance, behavior, and the desire to learn.
If you’re a teacher, leader, or support pro who cares about sustainable change, this episode offers grounded ideas you can use tomorrow. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a quick review telling us which program in your school creates the most unexpected sense of belonging.
Want to send us a show idea or just say hi? Email us at: thechangedpodcast@gmail.com!
Welcome back to Change Ed. Change Ed. Change Ed. Everyone's favorite podcast to listen to when they can't fall asleep.
SPEAKER_06:You know what we need to have back on? Macer. Because he's back.
SPEAKER_00:He's back. He's back. He's back. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Sorry. That's like my brain went, oh, we're just.
SPEAKER_00:That's not at all where I thought you were going with that. But yes, we definitely have to have Macer back.
SPEAKER_06:I mean, yeah. Anyway, sorry. My brain, A D A D.
SPEAKER_00:I am did take my body. Number one host on the show, Andrew Kuhn, Education Consultant from Montgomery County Intermediate Unit. And here with me is Patrice Machek.
SPEAKER_06:Also out of the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit and an educational consultant and not medicated today.
SPEAKER_00:What I love about this every time you try to go the opposite of my energy. Like when I'm like with me is it goes low, yeah. Patricia Machek.
SPEAKER_06:Because they know who I am. If they've listened to more than one episode, it's just like oh, that's why Tony reduced his to SDF. We're over it.
SPEAKER_01:And everyone's favorite SDF. Tony Marabito, Carbon Lehigh Intermediate Unit, Lehigh Valley, born and raised.
SPEAKER_00:Where I spent most of my days. Today's show.
SPEAKER_06:The guest is like, I cannot believe I'm here.
SPEAKER_00:And it is not Greg Maester, just so everyone is not surprised. This is one of Tony's guests. Tony's surprised guests who he I got this intro. He brought all the way from your hometown where you were born and raised.
SPEAKER_01:Standing at six foot tall, lightweight champion of the world. Wow. New well over the last year. Added the DR before his name. Oh, let me introduce Dr. Michael Heater.
SPEAKER_00:Congratulations. All right, Doctor. Welcome.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, what an introduction. I I don't I don't even want to know where to start. You guys have three different renditions on the title of your podcast. I like that. Yeah, sorry. You know, fun fact too, like Tony classifies everything north of like Schnecksville, where our office is as the spook. Yeah. Because I live there. So um that that's an issue that we've you guys really should work on in future episodes.
SPEAKER_00:Uh geography? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's not the Lehigh Valley, we're clear. We're in the clear. It's north where I get a little hung up. Michael, if you wouldn't mind, tell the people who you are, a little bit about your background.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, Dr. Mike Eater, you can go with Mike is good. I still get Mikey when I return home to my hometown of Oliphant, Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_00:Is that in the Scook, your hometown?
SPEAKER_02:Not the Scook, not the Scook, unless you're asking Tony. Yeah, my background. Well, I broke an education in uh 6'7. Only spent five years.
SPEAKER_05:Oh no. In 6'7? He didn't. He dropped it. Listen, I at my house I'm like 8'9. My kids are like, stop it, Mom. That's choogy. And I'm like, I don't care. What you're saying is choogy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, 6'7. Uh, the times when um there were hundreds of people trying to get a position. And I actually spent my first year as an in-school suspension coordinator. That was my day. Every day I was suspended. And then um, yeah, the next year I ended up in Schuylko County. I found a position. Um that's where I got it from. Scook. Yeah, I uh down to Monte Area School District. My next interview actually was in Charles County, Maryland, because at that time you you went where you had to go to break into education. And I actually ended up only teaching for five years. And by 27, 28 years old, I was a building principal at a middle school, a five to eight building. I did that for five years. There were some consolidation efforts going on at the small school district that I was at, and I ended up at a K6 building within the same district after we sort of went through the consolidation. There was a hot minute there where I think I was a high school principal, but you won't find that anywhere on the books. I kind of designed the 7 through 12 building.
SPEAKER_00:I was gonna say, was that at the K6 building? You were the high school principal.
SPEAKER_02:I was actually this is this is real. I was running the middle school that was in existence, designing the high school building while not quite knowing that I was gonna end up in the elementary building.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Surprise! We're moving the target education flexibility.
SPEAKER_02:So uh yeah, two and a half years of that-ish. And something about the IU life and world sort of appealed to me. So I actually, IU21 was somewhere within my my rate in terms of IU work. And at the time I was living in about an hour and 10 minutes from the central office. I interviewed for a facilitator position. I was offered that, things didn't work out for a couple of reasons. And all of a sudden, in August, this would have been uh 2019, I see this coordinator job open up, coordinator curriculum and instruction. And uh I think I had three interviews in eight days. And by Thanksgiving, I was I was walking through the front doors here of the main office, and I've been here ever since. Shortly after that, as we know, the pandemic hit. I was just getting my feet wet, if you will, in IU World, and all of a sudden we we were pivoting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Changed quite a bit. I was able to get back into doctoral studies as Tony kind of mentioned, and in 24 finished that all up. I do some adjunct work at Wilkes University in the principal program, and I actually also helped to run our principal certification program here at IU21 as well. So yeah, call me coordinator, yeah, a lot of other roles. So that's kind of the background.
SPEAKER_06:Wow. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Six foot is not accurate. I'm uh I gave him I gave him a few inches. Five foot seven and a half, and I love it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:For airplanes, I'm five feet when I stand up straight, so I get you.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it sounds like certainly just from what you've shared, that your career has really been based around flexibility. You've made some some transitions, but certainly from the work that we all do in the IU world, while we're all in education, we're all dedicated to empowering educators and what that looks like on a day-to-day basis changes a lot. And we actually were just having a conversation right before we started this episode talking about the importance of being able to code switch when you work at an IU. That you need to be able to flip it. It's not like you have, you know, you know, okay, here's the end of this class period, and then I'm I'm gonna now I'm gonna teach I'm still teaching science, but it's going to be biology instead of chemistry. You're actually you could be literally jumping over to something completely different where you need to put on a different hat and you're filling a different role. The importance of being able to do that, certainly from your example, if you are in a middle school building, unknowingly preparing to be in the K6 building, but also helping to get ready for the high school building, that requires a lot of wherewithal and knowledge across the board. And I would guess in your role that something very similar is required when you work at the IU.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I just was having a conversation, I think it was two days ago, about this. You know, my title here is Coordinator of Curriculum Instruction and Educational Technologies, but I don't know how much curriculum I've written in the last six years, right? It's we we just wear all the hats. I think of it more of we meet the needs of our schools.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, our the these C and I departments, you know, and the more I talk to other IUs too, it's like my position is what our schools need. And and you know, right now that looks like uh I do a lot of work in social emotional wellness. I do a lot of work in federal programs, comprehensive planning, school improvement planning, delivering PDs. You know, and my phone can ring right now from from a principal, uh a superintendent, a curriculum director, and and they just needs they need assistance with something. So, you know, that can that can shift my my day as well. So it really just it depends, and I embrace that. I think coming from the background that I just explained, I really do embrace making sure our leaders are okay to the best that I can. So when our leaders, when our principals or our curriculum leads, or even executive level administrators need something, I really want to make sure that that's taken care of because I was there. Yeah, I know how much they're dealing with on a daily basis. So that's a big piece of the puzzle.
SPEAKER_00:With this work, one of the things that I appreciate that I didn't before that I appreciate and value now is working behind the scenes that we are paving pathways that might not even be walked on yet, and we're getting them ready for when educators are ready to, you know, kind of run through there or crawl or march, whatever it may be. And one of the best examples I can I can think of for this is is that my understanding of musicals changed when I took this job. And I'll explain why. Thank you for asking, Dr. Mike. The reason it changed was that my son was just recently in the musical last year. He was out on the stage. It was great. It was really wonderful. But my daughter wants to be part of the musical, but she does not want to be on the stage. She actually wants to be part of the stage group. And in a lot of ways, I think the work that we do with the IU, we're like the stage group. If they're doing their job right, you're not going to see them. But they're the ones who are like setting the stage and getting it ready so that the the performers, all the educators, can do their job to the best of their ability. And so what's so interesting for me on that is that, you know, in these times that we're in with the the budget impasse and things like that. Because we're doing our job right, nobody really needs to know that we're there and we're doing what we're doing. But now we're kind of in this spot where it's like, well, what does that look like for us? What do you do with the IU? I'm like, well, hold on, let me get my Rolodex and tell you all these people who could vouch for me. And they're out there. There are a lot of people that, you know, if you're doing your job right there, you're able to impact. But that's just been an interesting part of, you know, again, do we need a stage crew? Like, what does the stage crew do? Well, without the stage crew, you've got a couple of people walking around on the stage. I don't think there's a question there. It's just kind of a common.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, I just think I would agree. I it's like the hidden side of education. You know, uh, when people knew I was a principal, there's no questions. Like, no, you're a principal. You know, you talk about what it's like, but they have this perception in their head of what you are and what you do, right? Now it's sort of like I'm a coordinator at an IU, and oh well.
SPEAKER_06:What's an IU? That's usually the question I get. What's an IU?
SPEAKER_02:I think I've seen some of those buses labeled here, you know, things of that nature. So yeah, I think that I think there is a hidden side. And I'll say this I think it lends a little bit to to some things that I really enjoy about the professional life, which is you know, building connections and and trust with these people that I work with, right? Once they know that, you know, they can come to us and and and we we're gonna do the job, we're gonna get what they need done. We don't really care if anybody knows about it or not, as you kind of said, that trust is there and that and that relationship is there. We're we're we're here to work for them. We're behind the scenes to make sure that they're they're successful. So yeah, I I I that's that's a neat analogy. I like that.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Mike. Everyone heard Dr. Mike, that was a good analogy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So, Mike, you're following uh the celebrity, Mr. Leon Smith. Right? Teacher of the year. Teacher of the year. We just interviewed Teacher of the Year, yeah. He was very good, but he talked about filling filling people's cups, right? You can't fill someone else's cup unless yours is full. And I know you do a ton of work with guest teacher, new teacher induction, SEL, things like that. How do you, first of all, keep your cup full, right? But then lead something like that where sometimes, especially with new teacher induction, like you're the first admin that these people see when they when they start their careers, right? Like what keeps you going? How do you do all that?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, my cup, oh my, where do you want to start? I mean, I I like the wage war with the pavement. I think that's a good way to keep my cup filled, a good run, right?
SPEAKER_01:Physical exertion.
SPEAKER_02:Physical exertion, yeah. Just get it out, right? I think my kids help with that, keep that filled up, family and friends, things of that nature. I think I think maintaining yourself, and I do a lot of work in wellness and making sure that teachers understand that you've got to take care of number one first, right? I've used the airplane analogy so many different times. In terms of you know, the work that we do for others, I've really found a need to emphasize starting from induction and guest teacher is this idea that you've got to start from day one in education now. You've got to have a plan to take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You you really can't wait until it's too much.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's too much. And and you know, to speak to you know, six, seven, eight, nine, uh, when I broke in, you know, there like I said, there were hundreds of applications for one position.
SPEAKER_03:We're at a place now where we're begging bus drivers to pay.
SPEAKER_02:It's a it's a different era. And more people are leaving the profession. So, you know, I really emphasize that from the jump when I get in front of new teachers, but we also reimagine, you know, we we literally just had a wellness event on Monday at uh a local camp where we invite school-based mental health professionals as well as teachers to come on out and learn new strategies. Oh, that's awesome. We had nature therapy sessions, team building exercises. We actually ended the day around a campfire just talking about drivers of fatigue in our systems and drivers of resilience and how do we bring those resilience pieces to the surface more often? And and you know, I'm a little inspired because I do think our school systems at the leadership level are starting to realize that we do have to focus on these things and and we do have to make sure that our organizations are okay and the people in it are okay. Yeah. So, yeah, to answer the question, I think it starts from the jump, but also we need our systems to be on board as well.
SPEAKER_06:So, how are you in your role helping to support administrators? One, and then how are you helping the administrators support their teachers in terms of like the social emotional piece?
SPEAKER_02:Formally, we have network for our principals and curriculum leads.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think we do a pretty good job of designing learning experiences as well throughout the year for our leaders. But I'm not even sure how many at this point I just have in my cell phone that they know they can reach out to me and and kind of have that conversation or, you know, have that ask that they just need taken care of. So I think the support goes beyond sort of those formalized experiences, but also they just know they have somebody at the IU that'll go find that answer for them. Yeah. And I think that that's really important. In terms of supporting them to meet the needs of their teachers, I think when we plan, so so I'm the comprehensive planning lead here. I also do a lot of work in school improvements. And when we get in there and we're working on those things, I think I can do a decent job of bringing a realistic sort of planning lens.
SPEAKER_04:Helpful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, we know how to write plans that are gonna meet the check boxes, if you will.
SPEAKER_06:And they look good on paper. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:They look good on paper. But I think I bring to the table, you know, what what are we gonna actually be able to get done? And what what's gonna meet the capacity or or what are we gonna be able to do that is gonna fit within the capacity of your staff?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I think that's really important. We can write a bunch of things down, but the reality is what are we gonna be able to do that's gonna still allow our people to thrive and be okay?
SPEAKER_06:Right, right. And not be overwhelming.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:We end up with like 10 different initiatives, but really you can only do one of them good every three years if we're being real about you know how change works. And and change is hard. Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_02:Change is hard. We know that. And we we happen to work, the four of us right now, and everybody else in education happen to work in a in an industry that just constantly is asking for more change, right? And and more memory. And do this, yeah, and change this and try this again. And you know, we feel that. We feel that.
SPEAKER_06:Or or do this, but it's the same thing, but it's got three different names.
SPEAKER_02:I was gonna imply that. Let's market that a little differently. Right, right.
SPEAKER_06:We're gonna change it from themes to project-based learning to inquiry-based learning too. They're a little bit different, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Now we're using capital letters, which means it's different.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, CSI. Remember when that was school improvement, corrective action, and all of those, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, that's that's a that's certainly a challenge, and I think our school systems feel that as well. So it's important to kind of try to keep help to keep them grounded.
SPEAKER_00:Connecting everything we talked about so far, the other part of it that is impactful is funding and even the political scene. And it all it all mixes together. So educators, by nature of what they do, need to be flexible, they need to be able to be malleable to, you know, what is the the through and through message that we're working on here? What skills are we trying to develop in students? So no matter what we call it, we know that we're trying to develop these and prepare them in this way for whatever may come in the future. How big is Carpent Lehigh? Is it in two counties? Two counties, fourteen districts.
SPEAKER_06:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Private, public, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:14 districts, but are they like big like big geographically?
SPEAKER_02:Allentown. Yeah, here's the thing. It's you know, I have this talk a lot too. This is a very, very unique IU. And it, you know, we go north from Weatherly down through Southern Lehigh and Coopersburg on the edge of Bucks County, right? Weatherly at the northern tip graduated last year, like 38 students. What? And on your on your travels to Coopersburg, you're gonna pass through Allentown School District, Parkland School District, East Penn, and these are gigantic engines. And one of the challenges that we have as an IU is in the same room, you may have a principal of a school building such as Weatherly with a principal from a high school, let's say an Allentown School District.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Sure.
SPEAKER_02:It's not that the needs volume-wise are different. It's the needs are so different in what they are. That is a specific challenge to a carbon lehide or media unit for sure.
SPEAKER_06:It's just interesting because we have 22?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:22 districts where one county, I can get from Hatborough, which is pretty far to where I live, in like an hour. They're like on opposite ends. So geographically, though, it sounds like you cover way more space. Is that true?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know that it would take. What do you think, Tone, from Weatherly to Coopersburg? Probably an hour and 10.
SPEAKER_01:Hour and a half, yeah, I would say.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so terrible. Not horrible. Yeah, but to speak to what you just said, Patrice, I mean, we have some districts in Carbon County with 80, 90 percent poverty rates, right? Free reduced lunch rates with our students. And then there are other aspects in Lehigh County where it's maybe, you know, 15, 20 percent. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:It's just a very different conversation, yeah. Yeah, it's completely resources and like it's just yeah, it's just interesting.
SPEAKER_00:It's about delivering local content, and that's a very much, you know, for an IU having to be aware of for you, all 14 of your districts, and then even your private schools that are there, and like what are the needs? Who are the people? How are we connected? So it takes a lot of intentionality, but also human capital and resources to make sure that we're getting what they need to that spot and that they don't feel alone.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and not to get too far into the weeds of that word equity. We can go. But I do a lot of work in that realm.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I find that, you know, and we can probably have an entire conversation on why that word has gotten warped one way or the other. But the reality is, you know, the intention is that we're meeting the needs of all students at the present time based on their needs to be most successful, despite any differences. Right. And I found that that word takes on a life of its own depending on where you are. Yeah. And the reality is in our at RIU, that can mean cultural differences, that can mean economic differences and more. To me, it's are we getting the message that we're supposed to meet, be trying to meet the needs of all of our students, despite what that may take? And and that can be quite tricky depending on where we are. And certainly we see that gap. I mean, we've got school districts that just need a new building, period. Right.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Or they need new facilities, period.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then we have others who are thinking about how to expand into you know how to leverage new technologies to become the next level. And it's like that gap is is astounding in some ways.
SPEAKER_00:And leaning into this a little more. I've certainly had situations where I've had to give a presentation more than once and they were in two different districts, and there were parts of it that landed really well at the first district, and then it was like a lead balloon in the second district. I'm like, oh, that's right. I'm here. You value this differently. I need to change how I'm delivering this so that you're not stuck on that or resentful. You know, our job is to open doors, not close them. Invite others into the conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Mike so switching gears here a little bit, too heavy of a topic. We need to make it more lighthearted here.
SPEAKER_02:The Giants found their quarterback.
SPEAKER_01:Any anytime I can bring up the term esports in any of these podcasts, I I I try to do so, right?
SPEAKER_00:Mike, thanks for coming on the show.
SPEAKER_01:We really enjoyed having you.
SPEAKER_06:We'll edit this part out.
SPEAKER_01:A lot of people don't know is that Mike helped start everything esports in our area. Nice. And then he conveniently left left me to my own.
SPEAKER_04:No, he didn't leave you. He empowered you to be the leader that you are.
SPEAKER_01:Things are made. Yep. We all started with this webinar on Super Mario was the background thing. I can remember that during the the height of COVID in uh December, I think it was. But he also got his doctorate with some kind of research into the esports realm. You can you can take them on our on the journey a little bit if you want.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, Tony had this bright idea to jump on this webinar. It was uh December of 2019. I think it was this it was STEM related, but it was focused on esports, or was it 20? It must have been 2020. And my lens at the time was I just kept hearing more and more schools talk about attendance and engagement, attendance and engagement, attendance and engagement. Students aren't on their cameras or they're not coming at all, and all these different things. You know, I said to him, it was before the holidays. We all know in PD land it can get a little slower at that moment. And I said, let's do it, let's put some time into this. And it just so happened, it was just he and I that day here in the office. And by the time we had gotten done, I I don't know what in it kind of inspired me, but really what I saw was look, here's a chance for students to get engaged, no matter where they are. Like it became very apparent to me quickly that we did not have to have students in person sitting in a room to begin to engage and to interact.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:And I also knew every kid was playing a video game in some form or another. So, like, this is gonna be easy, right? We just gotta build this ship. Now I'm gonna give a waiver here. I absolutely love my boss, Eric, as you you all know Eric Leck. But he was a little skeptical, despite what he may tell you in the beginning. Like that's you know, guys, you can put that little toy over there. Tony and I just did. We any any kind of spare time we had that we could in our in our calendars, we we put it into planning it. And you know, next thing you know, it starts with the meeting and then a scrimmage, and and we have a full-fledged league. But that wasn't what it was about. It was we started visiting schools, and I remember I think we were at East Penn. Students were sitting there, it was their it was like their club meeting, and and one of the students had said, We're on the announcements today for our match tonight against Parkland. Cool. And we've never that's never happened to us before. And like students are excited that we're competing against Parkland. It's like our rival. Yeah. And I remember how excited these students were. And I they went on with their meeting and I turned to Tony and I said, This is it. Like we did it. Like this is this was what we were trying to do. We were trying to make connections with students who normally maybe wouldn't have that opportunity. Right, right. So then, you know, I'm I'm kind of traveling down the doctoral journey and I'm getting close to dissertation, and I'm thinking, I'm gonna do a study on social emotional learning or something. And I start doing the research, and no offense, but it was like, eh. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm gonna do this thing on esports. This is fun. And I start to look into it. And there wasn't a lot of work done in the high school environment. And it's not that simple to do a study with right.
SPEAKER_06:It's not just putting kids in front of a computer and watching it, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So so I start going down this journey, I get all the approvals, I do the study, and I end up interviewing students from all across Pennsylvania who are current esports quote unquote athletes. And it just sort of reaffirmed what Tony and I had seen, right? I heard some of the most inspirational stories of students who came to high school who really didn't have much connection, didn't have friends per se. And now they felt the sense of belonging. It opened up new skills and pathways for them as they were on the back end of their high school careers. That's awesome. One of the most inspiring was a young man who was involved in the life skills classroom, and he actually helped to develop the logo for the esports program and excelled in esports. And it was such a such an amazing story to sit and listen to and be part of as the research. So it it was a really interesting experience. It was really fulfilling. I did, unfortunately, about a year or two ago, sort of say, okay, Mike, enough with that. Esports, that's you know, you've got these other things you need to be doing. It's been a great ride. And I still kind of try to keep an eye on it from afar.
SPEAKER_00:We can certainly validate from our work with Tony that he is a very good proponent and strong advocate for engaging students in any way and capacity. And you you use that vehicle of esports to do that, but I know that's not just the only vehicle you use. Like, how can we engage learners? Right. How can we make sure they're involved? How can we make sure they're in the process? That's the last time I'm gonna say something nice about you in this podcast. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:I know it's gonna work esports in whenever I can.
SPEAKER_06:No, I love it. Like hearing what Mike's saying, like I think my oldest would definitely like he plays soccer and he does all these things, but I think he would, I mean, he comes home and that's all he wants to do is play.
SPEAKER_01:There's a there's a group of students out there that we're reaching that have never been reached before. And that's just the kids like uh not listening to videos.
SPEAKER_06:Pulling them together and giving them that's the whole thing. That's what I I can tell both of my kids when they first got their Oculus, they were meeting kids like my youngest, his best friend, lives in Washington State, and they met through what's the monkey one.
SPEAKER_01:Oculus is issues. I liked how you're doing hand motions because that's what they do.
SPEAKER_06:They like literally like run around, like they have the little things on, and that they are doing that all the time. Anyway, they met through the game on his I know what it's called because I hear it all the time. Anyway, but it's a really cool opportunity to like one, expand your horizons and meet people outside. Because he had another friend that was actually in England. And so like he would talk about time differences and all the culturally things they were doing differently, and like it's a really cool way of bringing people together because we have access to technology, and you don't have to, while I do find it amusing, they sit in the room with each other, talking to each other through their microphones, but not really like they don't have to be in the space, but they all come and it's weird to me. But it can be the ultimate connection, but it really does, it makes the connection, and to your point, to kids that wouldn't normally they would just be playing COD or whatever on their own.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I agree, but I I also think it's important, like if you start to look through the lens of these students who are playing, they see it differently. Absolutely. They're the, you know, I'm talking about the the students who are competing. Yeah, they see playing as putting in reps. Yeah. Yeah. Training. Yeah, they're athletes. Yeah. That's right. And you know, Tony and I both come from a sports background. So that was a big piece of this journey as well. And we kind of started to see that as they were working together. Like, it's not just about they're wasting going. Oh, they're not waste.
SPEAKER_06:I don't think they're wasting time at all. I love it. It's so good for my kids, and they're not in a league, but it's so good for even their social emotional. Like, I have to learn how to communicate with you because I'm not in the same space with you. You can't read my facial cues because we have these big goggles on, or I'm on a laptop, or like it's really good for their social emotional. They have to work through problems and solve, like, I yeah, I could see the benefits all across the board just from my kids.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I think it's like anything else, right? There's got to be balance because I think one of the knocks on it is you know, all they do is just play games, not you like you know, public perception. They just they're just wasting time playing video games. Yeah, it's just like anything else. There's got to be balance, right?
SPEAKER_06:And that's not what school's about. I've heard that before.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Andrew?
SPEAKER_00:Go ahead, Andrew. Andrew doesn't know technology. So when it comes to football, we're like, that is like that. That definitely helps education, right? Like that's a top priority.
SPEAKER_06:Right? It's crazy that football, they're getting now active concussions on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting way, this comes back to that equity conversation of like, but we're engaging students who otherwise wouldn't be engaged, and we're being told, like, nah, that's not really like that's not where we're gonna put our funds. But why? Well, why? You know, it's important. So we need that new turf, that's why. Yeah, yeah, we need that new turf. Anyway, like I again, I love football. I'm not I'm not an anti-football person.
SPEAKER_06:No, but it's a different there's people, there's only so many people that can play on the football team.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_06:And not everyone likes them. What?
SPEAKER_00:There's my rugged good looks, as the coach always told me.
SPEAKER_06:Didn't want to mess your pretty face up.
SPEAKER_00:We gotta face it over a radio, Mike. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Other than the truth.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the truth hurts, and you hurt me.
SPEAKER_05:This is all day long. All day.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, doesn't get old for me. I'm still ready to go. Actually, I'm gonna tell you a story.
SPEAKER_06:Oh this is like a really funny story. Here we go. Sorry, Mike.
SPEAKER_00:When I was when I was a sophomore, I moved here when I was a sophomore and went to like one of those new student orientation meetings.
SPEAKER_05:It's gonna be like if it's not great, we'll get rid of it.
SPEAKER_00:But it will be it'll stay, I can tell you that. So this the football coach comes up to me and he's like, he's like, hey.
SPEAKER_06:The football coach walked up to you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he was like one of the people at that thing.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, you want to be the water?
SPEAKER_00:No, he came up to the table. You know what? This is destroying my my story. Mike, Mike's with me. He's the only one that's no.
SPEAKER_06:Mike just sat back. He was like, Here we go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Anyway, this coach is like, hey, you should play football. I was like, hey, thanks so much. But like, um, that's not really my thing. Like, um I prefer I'm more of a lover than a fighter. He's like, Oh, he's like, you know what we do for guys like you? He's like, we take a collection from the football team, and then we pay somebody to go take you on a date for a prom. And I and I was like, wow. And this guy's we're like, thank you, sir. This guy's a winner, right? And I needed it. And because I was a sophomore, I knew everything and had all the responses and answers.
SPEAKER_06:Well, that hasn't changed.
SPEAKER_00:And then I said, I have an idea. How about you collect all that money and then pay me and I'll play for you? That that that got me on the team instantly.
SPEAKER_06:Did it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_06:It got you as like the little the dummy that they ran into.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the question I we we didn't really hit it off so well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was a good tackling cushion. But I also I will say this. You know, I I coached, I did coach football for 11 seasons before I came here. And one of my favorite moments, hey, winning a game on a Friday, right, succeeding, it's all great. But having players who joined, and let's say necessarily didn't get a lot of time, right? But by the end of the year, they had like a group. And when they walked down the hallways, they belonged. Yeah, right. I I can I can name right now, like if I wanted to, like each year or two, who those who those kids were.
SPEAKER_00:Found their team.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I'll I'll always remember those guys because it it it really did. It gave them it gave them a place, it gave they fit in, they had they had a spot. So I I just don't get like we've got to create as many opportunities as we can. Whether it's esports, football, gaming, like whatever. Ask ask the students. That's always my thing, especially with a lot of the planning that we do. Like, ask the students what do they want to be involved in? Create these opportunities. And we see in the pays data, like we're not doing enough of that, right? And if we want students to feel connected and belonging in school, if there's one thing I learned in my study and you can find a ton of research on this, it's you know, create opportunities that they feel like they want to come there every day. Why do I want to go to school, right?
SPEAKER_06:Right, right. I remember when I was teaching in Philly, we had these after-school clubs, and I am a little bit of a nerd, so I can crochet and knit and I don't laugh, Tony. It's actually It's not a nerd thing.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's just funny that you presented it like that.
SPEAKER_06:Well, yeah. Like, okay. Anyway, so I we started this thing because I would bring it to school for staff meetings because I'd be bored. So like there was always like yarn and a hook or needles in in my classroom. Anyway, so my kids, some of my kids were like, I really want to learn how to do this. And I was teaching math at the time and it was really interesting because like you can connect math to anything. By the end of the semester, though, and this is one of the things that I find it so intriguing, is that I had I started with like 10 girls, and then by the end, I had, I think I had like 30 or 40 girls and like seven or eight boys that had just not connected with anything. And like we would just sit and the conversations we were having, because they were just moving their hands and we were talking about all kinds of stuff. And I was just so impressed with how vulnerable they would be in that space because they had a community. And I think that to your point, like football or esports or whatever, we do a very good job. And I'm not trying to make this a gender thing. It is a very we have a very good job of finding opportunities for our young men. Or girls, on the other hand, are either not allowed to do certain sports because of their gender. Like I there I know there's a lot of girls in esports and things like that, but there's also not as many opportunities for our young women to feel like a sense of community either.
SPEAKER_01:So I think I think that sense of community is huge in your village, right?
SPEAKER_06:Interesting thing to really think about. Like girls naturally, I think, have more vulnerable spaces just between their girlfriends, but girls are also really mean. Yeah. Especially in middle school and high school. And I don't know, like a community might be just don't do as good of a job.
SPEAKER_02:Invest in women's wrestling because I'd make an argument it's gonna be one of the largest, fastest growing trends in Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_06:Yes, it's getting big in the valley, it's getting huge. And lacrosse, like I'm watching lacrosse blow up, like it's getting so big everywhere. But like where I live, we we don't even have a boys' high school team, let alone like bringing girls into it. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:You know, in the argument it can be made that growth in the classroom, success in the classroom is directly tied to community, and it doesn't always start in the classroom, going back to the saying of they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And so these activities that you're talking about outside the classroom things directly connect back to it. So that's what's really hard for all of us as educators. You're like, well, I'm contractually, I've I've been here for my day, right? Like you want me to go to your wrestling match, but I've been here for my day, but then staying that extra 30 minutes makes the next day that much more successful for everyone, not just for you as an educator. So it's a very hard line to walk, right? And we have responsibilities and a lot of things, but I I think there's so much to this idea of the extracurriculars actually become make the curricular part, the academic part, successful.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, for sure. And you know, I don't know how many of my presentations you'll see one of the first slides, it's just all it says is connection before content. Right. And I I really believe that. I I'll you want to talk about philosophy, that's it right there. And and I think it's all about deposits. Yep. Right. Every time we have a positive interaction with a student, it's a deposit. And and you know, it's interesting. The way that I kind of talk about it and preach about it, if you will, is when it's time to have a tough conversation, those deposits really pay off.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, they do.
SPEAKER_02:Right? And and it doesn't matter if it's a two parents or a colleague, it makes no difference. If if you keep making deposits and build a relationship, eventually when you've got to have a difficult conversation, you you've got that foundation. There's already trust built.
SPEAKER_06:And they know where you're coming from.
SPEAKER_02:You're not trying to pick on a student, you're not trying to go after a colleague or when I was a principal, right? We've had all these successful kind of interactions, but we've got to kind of talk about this now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So that idea of connection is, I mean, I can't, I I really can't overstate it. I I think it's so, so powerful in our classrooms and in our schools, and it really should be a focus. I mean, I do entire PDs on that. So the more opportunities we can take and and the more that we can capitalize on that. One last point on that. I think we're seeing this trend in our high schools now. I've had more and more principals say to me, students know they have choices.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:They don't just have to come here every day. Yep. Now we don't have to agree with that, but that's that's the thinking right now in a lot of our high schools. Yep. So we've got to start to think like more than ever. What are we doing to make kids want to come here every day? And and that answer is connection, whether it's in a sport, an extracurricular, whether it's whether it's interactions, whatever the case may be, I really think the future of education, we've got to start to look at that more.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I totally agree. Our podcast, from my perspective, is a great example of connection before content. Because if we started just with content, uh, you know, it would take a long time to get listeners and they'd be like, oh, they think they know everything. But now we can actually, from my perspective, we can have harder conversations that our audience is able to listen to because they'll say, Oh, well, that, you know, Andrew asked those questions, or like that's his mindset, or that's what he thinks about, or, you know, Patrice, what great example she gives. And she's, you know, she's really she's has this great idea about this. Or same thing for Tony, right? Any of us. It could be what are we adding to it, but also the conversations become more challenging, but we've been intentionally depositing into our audience, into education, into all these things versus us saying, hey, look, we've got all the answers. Just tune in for the next half hour and we'll fix all the problems, which none of us ever thinks that we will do. It's quite the contrary, or we're like, we have a lot of people.
SPEAKER_06:We've just found 95 more problems.
SPEAKER_00:Right. We actually feel like there are more questions when we're done than when we started, but it opens up this door and opens up the makes these connections. And I think one of the biggest things for me is that our our audience of listeners, they don't feel alone. I want them to feel like there are people who actually see them and who get where they're at and they get what they're doing, and that we're able to be fortunate enough to ask questions that if they could sit down with someone, they would ask these same questions. They they're wondering we're we we just get to be the fortunate ones to do that. So I want to be a conduit for these educators and to empower them. Tony, this is your guest. Would you like the honors of the of telling Mike he has a second to last thought?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then if you want to close it out, if you want me to, it's uh look, this is like there's a tradition on this podcast where Andrew always goes last, but he always gives the guest the second to last thought. So any second to last thought you'd like to share in closing.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. It's been a pleasure. It's always a great conversation. I love talking education and things related to it. You know, we have these conversations about education and learning and connection and engagement. You know, it it goes so far beyond Andrew. You just talked about content, right? It's just so much, it's so much more than that. Yep. You know, and I'm privy to see a lot of information regarding like student mental health and trends and and things of that nature. Yeah, this profession, it can get to the point of, you know, you could save a life. You can really make such a tremendous impact on another individual or groups of individuals. You know, I I kind of put this profession at the highest of uh in our society in terms of importance. And um, I really hope as a society we kind of can get back to that because I think we lost some of that over the last couple decades, which speaks to some of the shortages and things like that. But I I really do think that. And I'm I'm I'm thankful to you guys. Tony and I kind of have an inside joke. I've got a lot to talk about. I just need a bigger stage. So uh bigger policy anytime.
SPEAKER_06:You can come on anytime. Andrew needs a break.
SPEAKER_02:So some of the followers will uh appreciate that line. So yeah, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00:Andrew, right, invitation, Mike, open, open policy.
SPEAKER_06:Open open policy. Andrew.
SPEAKER_01:All yours. All mine. Wow. Yeah, we can't switch it up now. Three seasons. Right?
SPEAKER_06:Don't you love it when he's like, you just go do this now and he's over here taking notes. I haven't taken a single note in three years.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah.
SPEAKER_06:That talks a lot about me.
SPEAKER_00:Mike, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for being part of this and for all that you do in education. When you said you can save a life, the one thing I'd add to that is dot, dot, dot and never know it. And I think that's the important thing that we as educators don't know our impact. If we're fortunate enough to stay at the same school or be at the same location long enough, students might come back. They might even move back into the area and and their kids come through and you get to see them again, and then they can tell you the impact. But I think as educators, we just don't know what impact we have and may never know our impact that we have. And it reminds me of a quote by Harry S. Truman, which is it's amazing what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit. And in education, this is always true. Especially like middle school, some of your hardest years, and you're dealing with a lot of stuff. When they get to high school and they're about to graduate, who are they thanking? They're thanking their sophomore math teacher or their junior science teacher or their PE teacher, whatever it is. Like you can sometimes forget when you're in the thick of it, when you're in the trenches all together in anywhere in life, but in this example, they you can forget those times. You can forget that experience and how it helped move you forward. And so as educators, we are so fortunate to be in the people business and that we get to work with others and and watch them grow and develop. But we have to take on that mindset of like, we might not get the credit, and that's okay. But we knew that the gratification comes from knowing that we are part of your journey and that part of us is continued on a legacy, if you will, through each of the students that we get to work with because you know they were with us for a year and they, you know, were impacted in whatever capacity by us and by who we are. Thank you again for coming on the show for all that you do, for tolerating Tony the way that you do. We appreciate you keeping them up near the Scook.
SPEAKER_02:And they will give them some geography.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, give us some geography. And for our listeners, make sure you listen and subscribe and share this with all your friends who live in and out of the scook. And for our fans. Listeners.
SPEAKER_06:We don't know if they're fans, but if we get fan mail, right?
SPEAKER_00:That's what I mean. The fan mail. Please connect with us. We we love hearing from you and know where you're from so we can contact you.
SPEAKER_06:Or we could we could put our email addresses on there.
SPEAKER_01:I think that'd be great. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like something that everyone who comes on the show likes to tell us is what is their their educational philosophy? I just can't.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, do you want an angry freaking call?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but