STEELS, Science, And The Shift

Curiosity thrives when classrooms trade recipes for real experiences. We sit down with Kevin Murphy and Kaity Ferraro from Cheltenham to unpack how a district moves from “follow-the-steps” science to student-driven inquiry under STEELS—without burning teachers out. From the first messy pilot to a sustainable system, they show how small, intentional changes beat heroic sprints every time.

Alignment becomes the multiplier. Administrators get trained on the resource and the pedagogy so walkthroughs recognize productive noise, open questions, and student talk as signs of learning. That shared understanding gives teachers permission to say “I don’t know—let’s test it,” and keeps evaluation from punishing the very behaviors STEELS asks for. Along the way, we share the human side—team dynamics, quick pivots, and even the icebreakers that spark laughter and honest debate—because culture is the infrastructure that makes a new model stick.

If you care about science education that builds problem solvers, designers, and clear thinkers, this conversation offers a roadmap you can adapt tomorrow. Subscribe, share with a colleague who’s wrestling with STEELS, and leave a review to tell us the one 10% change you’re making next.

Want to send us a show idea or just say hi?  Email us at: thechangedpodcast@gmail.com! 

Transcript

Banter, Filler Words, And Warm-Up

SPEAKER_07 0:00

In teaching the first time. My student teacher tallied how much I said like, like I did this. Oh, that's embarrassing. So I'll probably do this on a couple of times.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

Andrew did that to me while I was presenting in front of an entire group of people at a conference once. He counted how many times I said um, and then how many times my co-presenter said um. And then he said me halfway through the presentation, he was like, You've said um 17 times. I'm like, bro. Not in the middle of a presentation.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

It was so did you say it last a second?

SPEAKER_05 0:28

Oh, for sure did. I think I said less words total. It was so boring.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I was like, I'm just gonna shut down completely.

SPEAKER_07 0:34

I was not engaged in the content, so I needed to.

Meet The Hosts And Guests

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Yeah, I mean, it was like it was a snooze. Everybody was asleep, so I was counting something. Sheep, count ums. You know, I had to do something. Oh, okay. I'm glad we recorded that. Welcome back to Change Ed. Oh, we're the number one ready podcast. Are you for real right now? Change Ed. In the Western Hemisphere. I didn't pause for you. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:04

No, you did. And I was like, oh, yeah, thought you were just making a joke. Okay. We're for real.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I am your Capital H host, Andrew Kuhn, education consultant from Montgomery County Intermediate Unit. And here with me is Patrice Semacek.

SPEAKER_05 1:19

Also have Montgomery County Intermediate Unit and an educational consultant.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

And a host. Lowercase. All capital letters. Wow. Thank you so much. We're gonna end this show before it starts. We have so generous. Two of the finest educators in this building with us right now. In this room.

SPEAKER_07 1:44

It's room. Just the room at this table.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Currently on that side of the room. We have with us Kevin Murphy and Katie Ferraro. Ferrero.

SPEAKER_07 1:55

Ferraro. Ferraro. Almost there.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Ferraro tomorrow. I lost it. I had it and I lost it. I went to commit and you know fell apart. Sorry. From Cheltenham. And you both don't actually do anything. So you came here with us to do a podcast, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Just like we have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Oh, you guys, I know, I know it was not easy.

SPEAKER_05 2:17

Who wants to drive 45 minutes to the IU to sit and talk, get insulted by Andrew? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

There's a line of people I will tell you who want to do.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Man, Andrew the best Andrew is now.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

It's definitely not that one. No.

Roles Across Curriculum And STEELS

SPEAKER_00 2:32

My cousin Andrew, who works at uh for Mary, you're right. He discovered. So, but you you both do a lot of things. I've seen you wear many, many hats. So tell tell, can you tell our audience a little bit about what you both do and and so I'm currently the supervisor of elementary curriculum and instruction.

SPEAKER_07 2:52

So with that, lots of different hats. Thank you. Wearing my heart lies with the teachers and giving them the tools, whatever they need to ensure they got have the knowledge to get the instruction done and meet the kids where they are and really help them grow. But we do some TBL stuff. I kind of immerse myself in that because Kevin lives in that world with secondary in the high school. And yeah, I don't know. We did science. What did we do? I don't know. I just feel it's a blur. Lots of things.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, so I'm teacher on assignment for year number five. And it's been different every year. So when we go through, I started off doing it when COVID hit, it was more instructional tech support.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

How can we get the teachers to teach these things at home or in a hybrid setting? Yeah. Um, and then it's morphed into high school, science curriculum, uh 3D printing, laser cutting. Kind of getting that scope all over district. So right now it's been a big focus.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

That's crazy. Now you guys I liked how you said science kind of. What does that look like? Because there's a lot of shifting things that are happening. We're moving to steel's, you know, districts all over the state are in different spots. So what does that look like in Cheltenham?

SPEAKER_07 4:06

So with Kevin's work, I kind of think of him as the fabrication master. So and I enjoy all the hands on stuff. Like sitting at a desk all day just makes me so when the new steel shift was happening, we needed a lot of work in our district of really preparing our teachers and looking at different resources, like what's out there with the lines, how do we get all of them together? And Kevin had experience teaching STEM in the elementary setting. I was an elementary teacher five, six. So we dove, took a deep dive last year and really did a crosswalk of the standards, did a professional development for our teachers on steel, came to many of your workshops.

SPEAKER_05 4:49

I'm sure you learned a lot. All the good ones, I'm sure. All the good ones. The ones Andrew wasn't afraid of. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 4:55

Got some fidgets from you that I still now use.

SPEAKER_05 4:58

They're amazing.

SPEAKER_07 4:59

So we wrote curriculum for Sheldon Ham School District, and then we did a resource review and implemented, I think, a great resource K through five.

SPEAKER_05 5:11

It's awesome. Sorry, he swallowed while she was talking.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

So that's useless.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

Yes. No, we'll figure out how to. There's four different microscopies.

unknown 5:23

That's really good.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

It probably was a lot of mumbling and a lot of like actually. But did you see my head? I was like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Sorry. Did you have a you know it's pretty neck? It's snap.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Poor Andrew.

unknown 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

I felt it.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, it's not that big of a room. You feel the snap like that.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

You were doing really great. And I was like, what the heck? Oh, it's not your first time recording. What are you doing?

3D Printing From K–12 To PBL

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Um I clearly didn't take my meds this morning. Kevin, I was you and I've had a lot of conversations about the different things you do, and as Katie was saying, like the tactile, and you're working with students in different ways. And you've done a lot of work with 3D printing with the students as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

So they kind of create it and then you help them print it at all levels. Are you where are you working with them?

SPEAKER_01 6:20

It's a different point. So I I'm fortunate where I can get into the elementary classrooms and teach them the idea of 3D design. It might be simple, it might be a slightly elevated 3D name where they're creating, getting into AnkerCAD and understanding this is how you layer materials to create the product. We print them out and they get them. It's a nice little keepsake. The goal of that is to get the kids comfortable with that platform where if they get into Cedar Brook, where they have a STEM program or they go into PBL or any engineering at high school, they can start really designing prototypes, things that they think of that we test out in print. Because that's really the great tool of it. We have an idea, can we test it? Can we make it? And the 3D printer is cheap, reliable, and and copies what you're write.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

That's cool. We recently were at Penn State and they have a printer farm. Oh my gosh. Have you been?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

I have not. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 7:18

You it's a whole room of like what would you say? Literally is 20, 25, 30, like a crazy number of 3D printers behind like a wall of glass. So I guess it doesn't get any like dust or anything in there. And then the kids just is that kind of what you have?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah, but smaller scale.

SPEAKER_05 7:38

And then the kids just literally send it and then like there's someone in there that collects it and puts it somewhere, and then the kids just come and pick it up. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

That's awesome. You have that public school setting too. Woo-hoo.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

No, it could be set up and it's sent remotely. So that's awesome. Part of that's what printer you have. Yeah. So previous, we got new ones this year. So they allow us to send it remotely. Yeah. Or a student can send it, keep track of the queue, come pick it up. We're in the process of getting some of those PBL high school students to understand, hey, this is what we can create. We want someone like running.

SPEAKER_05 8:08

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

So it's it's there. It is neat.

SPEAKER_05 8:11

It's very cool. I'm happy to hear that it's happening. And uh it's getting there. Less than college setting.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah. Look at that. Penn State.

SPEAKER_05 8:19

What?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

John Ham's coming for you.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Who are we? C USD. Well. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_06 8:33

It's a lot. I know. No, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

It's a wild card.

SPEAKER_06 8:37

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

I mean, suddenly you're writing that.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

Like, and I'm staying over here on the safe side.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Maybe we should go to scripts from now on.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

We're a good team. We just learned that an agenda.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yeah, we have to make a list. We don't make a list.

SPEAKER_05 8:56

Oh, same, same. Upstairs we have a wall that we just write on.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

And if we don't have our executive functioning is in a toilet. So bad. Good to hear.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

Oh my gosh. So let's let's say that's not cute.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

No, I know.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Let's lean into this for a second. So tell us how you two work together as a team.

SPEAKER_07 9:17

Yeah. That's a good question. You can start it. Go ahead. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

I don't know. It just works. So, like the problem is I don't routinely we say, people like working with us.

SPEAKER_05 9:29

I don't think so. I don't think they like working with us either. Because it's well, we really enjoy it. Yes. We're a lot of fun to ourselves. We're a lot of fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

We're a little, we're a little different how we go about it in terms of how we like to just throw ideas off the wall.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Whatever it is, we've we've worked with each other to an extent for when we started EP since 2019.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

14? Oh my god. I think I started at EP.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah. So we've known each other for 10 years. And then we got into a role where it's like, oh, our jobs kind of mix a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

And then just how we think and basically are open to say, this is my idea.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

And we're both okay saying, no, that's not, that's not appropriate. That doesn't work. Let's rework it. Let's do it again. So we go into it. It's kind of leach, but like a with a design thinking mindset where it's like, we have a goal to accomplish. Yeah. I think we see things similar where it's like we want to put the teachers or students in the best place possible. Yeah. And we get there a different way. Yeah. Like it's and it's not for everyone. Yeah. But it's that's that's kind of how we've meshed our jobs a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 10:27

Yeah. And Kevin is very analytical. And like, all right, let's do this spreadsheet. Let's see it all. Where I'm like, let's just simplify this. Stop getting lost in the weeds. And we can just get it done this way, too. You know?

SPEAKER_05 10:41

That's the opposite for us. Yeah. We don't have to do all this thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Like I I need to, I need a she's like a her, like working with her is like a hurricane.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

That's I mean, yeah. It's like, oh, whoa.

SPEAKER_05 10:51

I feel like we need to just happen. We need to have a support group.

Team Dynamics And Design Thinking

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Um the problem.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

It works. Hurricanes unite, Katie. It works though.

SPEAKER_07 11:02

It does. It does having egos too, like realizing I don't have that.

SPEAKER_05 11:06

He has an ego. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

So weird. I don't even know what you're talking about. Legit support group.

SPEAKER_06 11:18

We're gonna have to have a drink. That happens too.

SPEAKER_07 11:23

But when you have common goals and you know, like, all right, this is a great idea and we can build this, and just bouncing off ideas and saying, All right, try it this way, try it this way. It's really hard to find that in a coworker that you're just randomly put with. Yeah. And then wants to do the same work and share ideas.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Gets excited about the work. That's the difference that I think like. Sometimes I well, I've worked with other people that like they're I'll come up with a really cool idea or I think it's a really cool idea, and they'll be like, Yeah, no, or womp womp. Like, no, but he'll say something, and he's like 19,000 steps ahead of me. And it's like, okay, bro, I needed like yes, I just need tomorrow. I can't tell you how many times we've had a presentation the next day, and it's two o'clock on the day before, and we're like, this is garbage. Like, we're scrapping it, we're starting over, we're doing all this. It happens all the time.

SPEAKER_07 12:18

Oh my gosh, we have to give bring a huge presentation tomorrow where we're we're out doing a literacy review. We scrapped it. And on Friday, we're like, this doesn't make sense at all. Yeah, yeah. We're doing this on Monday.

SPEAKER_05 12:31

Like, what are we doing? Uh huh. Yeah. Every time. It's annoying.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

It works though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:37

But then the so much better. The ones, the ones that are the night before, and we're scrambling to get that's why it's usually like a picture. There's no words because it's gonna change 45 times before we get there.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

But why is there a picture of a duck on your slide deck?

SPEAKER_07 12:53

It makes sense to stay with me.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

We'll get there.

SPEAKER_07 12:56

Your fork, spoon, and coffee, flawless.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

No. Oh what? They when they projected the fork cup and spoon scenario you get, right? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 13:07

Fork little fork.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Katie was at that. It was a random. Oh, this is so great. This is awesome. Like, we should do this for the next one. So we had something with all the elementary teachers in really not the right setting. It flopped so bad. It was it was crickets. We looked at each other.

SPEAKER_05 13:24

We're just like we gotta have like a fun group to ask them if they want to be big spoon or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

We screwed it up.

SPEAKER_06 13:30

But we showed all the pictures at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

It was a disaster. Um just pick one.

SPEAKER_06 13:35

Hurry up.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

So we have it in our slide for tomorrow. We have it for tomorrow in our slide. Yeah. It's currently hidden.

SPEAKER_07 13:43

It's currently hidden because I'm a little nervous.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

It went, it went that part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

So well, the other one that we did for a really long time was is Halloween music a genre. Oh, that was yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

That was a so basically what we find is that you tell a lot about the nonsensical things that we argue over. We passionately so many fights. We waste time talking about. We then make them into our icebreakers.

SPEAKER_07 14:07

I'm like, why are you like paper straw?

SPEAKER_05 14:10

Yeah, yeah. And we was just No, but we asked the Halloween one, it's actually a really good one. Is Halloween music a genre? And then they have to list because we got into a big fight about it because I said no. I said no.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Whatever, whatever is sadness in the scenario, that's the side you take.

SPEAKER_05 14:26

Um it's bad. No, but like we fought about it. I was like, okay, can you name 10 Halloween songs? If it's a genre, you have to name 10 Halloween songs, and they can't all be from the nightmare before Christmas. Or connect it to a movie. I guess that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

There's a playlist of it on Spotify.

SPEAKER_05 14:44

Yeah, but it's like argument over. Spooky skeletons 95 times eight different ways.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

It's because it's such a great song. People wanting to make their own Twitch stories.

SPEAKER_05 14:53

Remakes. But it's a really good, it's a really good, it's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

We actually did this for a session that we had. And you know, we know numbers of people matter. How many people you have in the room when you're trying to do something like this definitely matters. We probably had about 30 people. We were doing this training, and throughout the rest of the day, groups of people would call one of us or the other, either one of us over and be like, here's why you're wrong. And they would be like all day. All day. It was my favorite. Here's my list. Here's why tell Andrew, tell Andrew. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

And then, you know, no bad. It's actually a really fun opener.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

What about cereal or soup? What big small or big?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Soup is big spoon.

SPEAKER_07 15:33

Soup is big spoon.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Well, cereal, it depends what kind of soup.

unknown 15:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 15:37

Like honey nut, but only grape nuts. Grape nuts.

SPEAKER_05 15:42

What are you, 95?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

That's my breakfast, though.

SPEAKER_05 15:46

All right. No judgment. No, there's definitely judgment.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

He can feel it. He's out there.

SPEAKER_06 15:55

Yep. You like a routine. We like an agenda. We like routine. Do you think we've talked about it? What are we doing? What are we? It's only been 22 minutes. I see it captain.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Do you think we have anything that we can put into a podcast at this point?

SPEAKER_05 16:11

We're gonna have to cut out a solid, a solid 19 of these 22 minutes. Just start now. Minute 24.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Welcome back.

unknown 16:25

Oh man.

The STEELS Shift And Mindset

SPEAKER_05 16:26

How did you combine efforts to roll out steels with your teams?

SPEAKER_07 16:31

So when we I moved in, I was a data specialist in before I was a supervisor. And there was more of what Kevin did that needed to be in the elementary room. And we didn't have much of the steels work done. So we started to be like, this teacher's interested. They've gone to workshops at Penn State. They've done this. Can we get in their room? Get you in there. It was like, yeah, let's do it. So we started doing that. And then with steels coming, we're like, we have to act now because we didn't implement anything. So we were at ground zero.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

We weren't using a lot of the teachers weren't familiar with MPSS.

SPEAKER_07 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Because we were just on a holding pattern for 10 years because we weren't sure it was coming. So we waited.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

So it was really ground level. Let's get let's get in there.

SPEAKER_05 17:18

And it's a pretty big shift. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:20

So although I feel like some of the work at the middle school and high school with the PBL projects, it it kind of opens the door a little bit. At least there's like an inquiry mindset and uh questioning things and and designing solutions. So you have a little bit of that. At least you've got a little bit of that groundwork to kind of play off of.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

It was there, but in terms of science instruction, yeah. Like there was a great STEM course and a couple of great teachers that did implement that kind of learning. PBL is a whole different track.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

So it's it's it wasn't fully equitable. Got it. What you're trying to do in the elementary is get every kid and every teacher to understand.

unknown 17:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

They're gonna learn a little differently. Everyone's gonna look a little different.

SPEAKER_07 17:59

Yeah. And they're not content specialists, they're people specialists, as I call them. Like they're great with the little ones, they do everything. So making sure they had the tools and it was in a manageable way to them and not so overwhelming because that mind shift, like when we talked about it earlier, like if they see something, all of these cross-cutting concepts, all of these standards, how are they gonna do this? They're gonna shut down and not be open to it. So we are very much how do we make simplify it, make it easy to digest for our teachers and make something fun. We want to go to school to have fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

I will say that actually the most important part of steels is the thing that we we don't focus on enough. And that's the shift in our pedagogy. It actually has very little to do with the standards. Because if we're being honest, standards are standards, right? I can find the verbiage I need to say this is what we're doing, and I can match it up. But it's that shift in mindset where we're thinking about it differently, we're approaching it differently. So the science is the same, but the way that we get there is just a little bit different. We're jumping into a different vehicle. And this is not new in education. It it happened with math. I can speak for myself. I have four children and they come home needing help with math, and I love math. I'm like, all right, tell me how your teacher taught it to you, so then we can talk about it. Because if I just bowl through with my way, now you're gonna be doubly confused. You didn't necessarily understand it, which is not uncommon, right? It's a new concept. You're you're struggling with it, but then I'm like, no, no, no, do it this way. You're like, now what's happening? So I know I've talked about this on the show before, but uh, if you've seen The Incredibles 2, where the dad is like, Why do they change math? Math is math. How did you change math? And that's actually kind of now this is what's happening for science and and tech and engineering and even environmental. That we're we're like, we need to make this shift as well because we've Learn so much more about how the brain works and the human development. And so how can we involve them in the process?

SPEAKER_05 20:06

Well, and we're shifting from recipes to like experiences, right? Like, and that for me at the elementary level feels very different than the way I was taught and the way that last 15 years of education have gone. It feels safe to give them a recipe to follow to do the science, especially since I'm not a content specialist. And I know that if I do this, this is going to happen every time. And I don't have to worry about the extra questions that might take me down a rabbit hole that I'm not sure of where to go. And I remember being in a classroom and I remember feeling like I needed to know the answer and I needed to share the answer with them. And it's a very hard shift to make to allow the question to be there and be uncomfortable without knowing and let the kids know that you don't know and like be okay with that. It's a very big, uncomfortable shift.

SPEAKER_07 20:58

And in the world of education that I've been in, it's always, I need to write in because somebody's going to walk through and do a walkthrough. And I need to make sure that I'm doing the right thing. So, how do we help give that growth mindset to be able to do that?

SPEAKER_05 21:11

Because it does sound and feel a little messy, especially if you don't know like what you're walking into as an administrator either. If you're walking into a science class and they're like wandering around being loud and, you know, yeah.

Admin Alignment And Sustainability

SPEAKER_00 21:24

So I have a question. Is could this comparison of the the old style of teaching science to the new style teaching science, could they be compared when you talk about baking versus cooking?

SPEAKER_07 21:37

You like your spices.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah. That's because I'm spicy. So my understanding when it comes to baking is you need to follow the recipe exactly. Otherwise, you know, if you add too much flour, it's going to throw off the entire thing that you're making. When you're cooking, you can kind of be a little more loosey-goosey, right? You can kind of make mix it to taste. If you like something, you can add more of it. It's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_05 22:03

Baking's not when you say cooking, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Cooking like uh yeah, I'm cooking dinner versus baking a cake.

SPEAKER_05 22:10

I mean, I baked a different, but go on. Your analogy works.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

You're saying they're the same?

SPEAKER_05 22:15

I'm saying that you can be adventurous in baking.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah, so I'm not saying this is a solid analogy. I'm just asking a question. And now I'm regretting asking this question. Kevin, help me out of this one. I I understand what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_05 22:28

No, I know where he's going, but I feel like it feels a little half baked.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

That's all. That is a final word right there.

SPEAKER_05 22:39

No, I don't like that. Yes, I know where you're going. I just you can you can be adventurous in baking. Like anyway.

SPEAKER_07 22:47

Well, with cooking or baking, you're on the same page. The chef or the pastry, whoever's cooking, knows the end game. Yeah, right. So with move this back around. But as a teacher, and for the students and the administrator shouldn't they all have to be on the same page with this type of learning. Yeah. You know, we all can't just be like, okay, we're giving you this thing, do it now. Yeah. And all have different ideas of how to do this. Yeah. So I think that helps when you get everybody on the same page decides it's gonna look a different. And these are some things to look for now, to give space to the teachers, to give space to the students and the administration. Nice, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

And you set that up towards the end of the summer where the administrators had professional development on the new resource, right? Um, and they're that's not always common, right? Where it's hey, teachers have a new resource, but them getting in there and seeing this is how the program and the steels is gonna work, I think is beneficial because going back to the point of a teacher's gonna feel more comfortable if their administrator knows this is what they feel comfortable saying, I'm gonna do this there.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

From our perspective, with the work that we do with the intermediate, what you said is so important for administrators to really grasp this pedagogy shift because without it, they're able to provide a lot of resources that individuals need. But when they walk into that room, if it doesn't look the way it has looked, it might be confusing. So I fully applaud and I'm excited to hear that you are able to provide that for your administrators so they can have a better understanding. Honestly, half a day at a session you know, where they're able to kind of just see even if they don't fully grasp it, they're like, okay, this is different. I get that this is different. And then you can even lean on other teachers. What do you need? How can I help you? What support can I give you? Is really important and and leans into the sustainability part because this is new for us in Pennsylvania. It's not new, it's almost 12 years old now, this NGSS, but it's new for us. And I think we were talking about earlier about how Patricia will have this idea, and then I'm like, yes, let's go. We actually need to look at both of those parts while we're making this transition. So it's not just ambulance chasing, we're like, okay, we're gonna be steels until the next thing comes along, because the last standards we had were lasted for 20 years. So this could last probably the majority of people who are teaching right now, most of their career will be in steels. So what does that sustainability part look like? And how do we look ahead while also preparing and getting ready for right now?

SPEAKER_01 25:27

That's an that's that part of that intentional, hey, big picture what we want, start to finish, and making it sustainable. And one aspect of that was get the administrators' fault early.

SPEAKER_05 25:36

Well, you have to.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

That hasn't happened previously, not consistently. And then in terms of getting the teachers comfortable with this is what we have, we're implementing half of the units this year.

SPEAKER_07 25:47

Yeah, we're not doing this.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

We're not doing a full implementation. Um, really smart.

Partial Implementation And Materials

SPEAKER_07 25:52

There's so much, there's so much, and just the shift alone of having materials in your room, yeah. And a full-on unit where you don't know the answer at the end. You don't know what your kids are gonna say. Yeah. It's a huge shift for our teachers. So a huge shift for a lot of teachers.

SPEAKER_05 26:07

Like I would imagine that's a really great way of rolling it out. Stay a little bit in your comfort zone, but then push yourself a little bit. Goes back to my sustainable change being 10%.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

What are some of maybe some of the challenges that your teachers have been running into so far? Right, we're kind of so fresh into the year. What are things that you're hearing? What's feedback that you're getting from them?

SPEAKER_07 26:27

So I I think our beginning professional development was awesome. It was a long three days or two days, two full days.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

It was two full days. We didn't run it. We did bring in open sci ed trainer for it. Yeah, it was long, it was intense.

SPEAKER_07 26:42

They went through a complete unit of it. They were but they had to experience it. That's it's so important. And we did a lot of stuff on the back end to make that lift a little easier because sometimes, okay, yeah, you get a nice package of resources, but in the classroom, it looks so different. So we printed out, we made binders, we made manuals, we made pacing guides to help them grapple with this. Okay, I have a unit, but what do I go for where with it? So they did a great job with it. I think they were pleased, you know, that first initial time. And then materials coming to their classrooms, getting them, they love that.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

We used ECA, yeah. Which were renting their kids. So what's happening? One of the big issues before was science, even when we were piloting. Hey, here's all your science materials for the year.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

We don't have closets to store them. Right. Who's managing that within a school district? Right. What happens if we run out of materials or breaks? Yeah. Who's putting the order in?

SPEAKER_07 27:42

Yeah. So I can take that lift of preparing so much and dive into the content of the pedagogy. Where are we going? How do I do this? And that shift. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

And that's why we went that route where it's let's do this rental thing because it will get picked up at the end when they're going with the unit.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

So you're not keeping it, storing it other than it being in your room. Or that idea of we want to make these teachers as comfortable as possible with the content.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Um, knowing that it's a lot.

Final Takeaways And Support

SPEAKER_00 28:07

That's awesome. I love this idea so much because that's where teachers should be. We we, you know, we end up getting lost because there is so much that we have to do as educators. Not that any of those things are beneath us or should we shouldn't be doing it, but we could often spend so much time on things that aren't actually going to get the results that we want them to get. And don't actually matter, right? Like I could plan and plan and plan and plan. But if I can't implement it, it doesn't matter how much I've planned or how perfectly I've planned. So hearing something like that where it's like, great, this is kind of plug and play from a material standpoint, and then I have more time, energy, and bandwidth as an educator to be able to live into steals and to be able to shift as I need to and not feel so rigid. I love it. Love this idea. We're super grateful for both of you and all the work that you're doing. So before before you guys walked in, Patrice had a suggestion for a closing. No, I did not. And whatever you're about to say, didn't you? She was looking for some advice on how she could be funnier on the show. And I thought you two might be able to, you know, offer up some advice.

SPEAKER_07 29:17

We were listening to it. I'm like, she's has the best laugh. Like hearing you laugh just makes people smile on the podcast. So it's literally totally agreeable.

SPEAKER_05 29:25

I absolutely hate it. When I'm editing, I'm like, oh God, I'm so loud and obnoxious. I want to be her friend. And you're gonna be my friend.

SPEAKER_07 29:34

I think you're great. Andrew, you're mean. Finally.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Kevin, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Finally, someone that turned quick. That got aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

That was like when she whipped her neck at me. Yeah, it was like that turn. All right. Well, uh, not that anyone's listening anymore. This uh this episode is we cut it out.

SPEAKER_05 29:55

We'll cut it out.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Seriously, thank you for carving out time to come and be on the show and pay the tolls to come here. You're yeah, share your experience and not only what you're doing with the district, but sharing it out for the entire Change Ed Nation, which is international, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 30:11

Oh, it's only because my niece listens in Scotland.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

So thank you. Make sure, listener, to share, like, and subscribe to your favorite Change Ed podcast with your favorite host. Wow. Can you please hit recording?

SPEAKER_05 30:28

Wait, we didn't do like a final. We're not doing a final.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Oh, okay. Yeah, we're doing a final thought.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

Oh, we're not doing that anymore. We're not doing that this season.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

So we're doing a uh one of the one of the customary things on the podcast is do a second to last final thought. So we're gonna throw it to the two of you to share any final thoughts on maybe even things that we didn't even mention yet on this podcast that you think we've been science.

SPEAKER_05 30:52

Redirect us even further. Call ourselves a science podcast if you want to say some science.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, if you could say science three times before you're done, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_07 31:01

I would go, I'm gonna touch on your 10% critique. Yeah. 10% of implementation and not just rolling something out. When our teachers are trying to make that growth mindset shift, they need to be thoughtful and be included within the conversations and show them and guide them, but also go show up for them because they're in it every single day. And when anything changes, no matter what it is, home, school, work, it's hard. So let's support each other and science is really fun. So let's get into the steels work together.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Yay, science and steel. Science. I just had to say one more time. Yeah. Science.

SPEAKER_05 31:40

Now we can pay our sponsors.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Uh yeah, similar, similar to what Katie said in terms of whether it's science or any other subject, being able to create a team and understand we're trying to move that same direction. So for us to go through and say, this is what the new science will look like, yeah, we're gonna put teachers in a position to be successful.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

And how can we support that?

SPEAKER_03 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

And it's just important because if it's going to function and it's gonna work over the next two, three, five, seven years, you have to be in that and you have to go through and support the new initiative.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Yeah. That's a really great point. I'm very impressed with the way that you two work together as a unit. And one of the most important and critical things that we can do for students right now is teach some power skills. And one of those things is teamwork and how to work together. So I think any time that that can be modeled and that people can see that individuals come together and how they work together. So one plus one mathematically would be two, but when you're working together as a team, it can be more like three or four. So having a partner and having somebody that can push back on your ideas, but also encourage them and push them forward is just as powerful as a message as everything else that we recorded today and we talked about today because teamwork really does make the dream work.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

That was great.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

It was garbage.

SPEAKER_05 33:16

It wasn't garbage, it was great.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

It didn't feel great.

SPEAKER_05 33:19

Thanks for having us. What did it feel great? It was good. The look I gave you at the end, I'm sorry. It's just my face.

SPEAKER_07 33:31

No, thank you. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Yep, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

This is nothing if nothing else, it was very funny.