ChangED
ChangED is an educator based podcast for Pennsylvania teachers to learn more about the PA STEELS Standards and science in general. It is hosted by Andrew Kuhn and Patrice Semicek.
ChangED
The Blueprint for Student-Centered Learning Transforms Education
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While most teachers believe they already implement student-centered practices, Eric Lech and Tracy Rains reveal that genuine student-centered learning requires a deeper philosophical shift beyond simple differentiation. This transformation creates systems where students set meaningful goals, monitor their progress, and develop lifelong learning skills—a crucial change given that Pennsylvania PACE data shows only 30% of students feel engaged or see relevance in their education. The Blueprint breaks down this approach into five essential components with continuums of practice, allowing educators to identify their current position and chart a path forward regardless of their school's size or context.
Most importantly, this approach acknowledges the reality of educational change by encouraging educators to start small, be vulnerable, and model the learning process themselves. Rather than pursuing wholesale transformation overnight, the Blueprint focuses on sustainable change that builds student agency over time. Through success stories, site visits, and community sharing, educators across Pennsylvania are demonstrating that student-centered learning thrives in diverse contexts, moving beyond settling for sparks to truly ignite student engagement and prepare learners for lifelong success.
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Podcast Introduction
Speaker 1welcome back to change. Ed changed changed your number one educational podcast right now when you're listening to this podcast no, it's in the state in pennsylvania.
Speaker 2Yeah, we found out my 11 year old and we were the number one educational podcast in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3Congratulations. I'm betting it's based on my past.
Speaker 2It is 1000% because of you.
Speaker 1Because you fan the flame, and then the flame took off, that's what it is Wow, that's a throwback.
Speaker 3Don't settle for a spark.
Speaker 1That's right, we took the spark. I am your host, andrew Kuhn, education Consultant from Montgomery County, intermediate Unit number 23.
Speaker 2And here with me is Patrice Semitek, also out of the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit, number 23.
Speaker 4And Tony Marabito, CLIU 21 SDF.
Speaker 1So good to be here with both of you.
Speaker 2Why do you sound like a robot?
Speaker 1Because it wasn't genuine. I didn't know how to force it. Wow, so good to be here with both of you at least half of you.
Speaker 2Are we going to talk about how you lost your boom? Mike, You've been demoted.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 4Still at P&C.
Speaker 1Yeah, there were supply chain issues and I had to give it up. That's right, Tony we are at. P&c. We are still here for PNC 2025. We are super grateful for them for creating a podcasting recording studio for us.
Speaker 2No cobblestone floors this year.
Speaker 4I know it feels weird, but just way too close to Andrew, I mean better you than me.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1I'll take the bullet. Thank you for brushing your teeth today. Yeah, I'll take a bullet. Thank you for brushing your teeth today. We are here with two very experienced and knowledgeable guests from the intermediate unit land world Eric Leck, from CLIU 21, who is back to continue to feign the flame. Thank you, eric.
Speaker 3Great to be here.
Speaker 2Ignite the spark.
Speaker 3We don't settle for sparks. We don't settle for sparks. None of us are right here.
Speaker 2Light a match Great to be here. Ignite the spark, and we don't settle for sparks. We don't settle for sparks. None of us are right here. Light a match, I don't know, oh, feels good. Find a lighter, just light something Set it on fire.
Speaker 3Don't settle for a spark. But, when your parents promise you don't do it on your own.
Speaker 1And we have Tracy Raines from the Appalachia, iu number eight. Yes, welcome she's gonna bring us, bring us back to reality.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm excited about, or like, a lighthouse. We are ships.
Defining Student-Centered Learning
Speaker 1All the images you are very wrong with that well, thank you both for coming on the show, and I know that you both have done a lot of work around student-centered learning, and there's been a lot of conversations that we've been a part of. We've actually had other podcasts that we've talked about but I'd love to hear what is your perspective and your take on student-centered learning, and maybe how does that differ from what we're seeing now or what's happening now in education or even in the classroom?
Speaker 3So in my perspective, I see student-centered learning as that evolution and really making sure that all students are not only gaining access to what they need and what will propel them forward, but also to them taking that agency and then really taking ownership, goal setting, making that part of their learning journey. And that really requires a little bit more philosophical shift in the way that we approach education and what we're doing in education. So it's not an easy task. Often we see it in individualized classrooms, piecemeal within school districts, but we really want to encourage that more systemic thought. How do we make that shift, that philosophical shift in the culture of a district to really encourage student-centered learning for whatever it's going to look like, for all of the different students that we have in all of the different classrooms? That's how I see it.
Speaker 5I think too. I mean, everybody says I already do student-centered learning. My students are the most important. But this is, as Eric said, more of a systemic approach to it, because while we all think we are doing student-centered learning, there is a lot deeper dive that I think it's important for people to recognize.
Speaker 1And I think the reality from what I'm hearing is that, whether we think we're doing it or not, there's always room to grow. There's always more that we can learn, especially when we are being the lead learner in a classroom. What does it look like for us to be vulnerable as well? What is the blueprint for student-centered learning?
Speaker 3So Blueprint for Student-Centered Learning is a document that provides a set of five components around a systemic adoption of student-centered learning in a school district. Within each of those components there are essential actions, there are guiding questions, there are examples or benchmark statements, examples of evidence that school leaders and school teams can come together and review and determine where their biggest needs to move forward with student-centered learning or to evolve their student-centered learning programs. But it's really that sort of self-assessment tool that helps build that systemic vision toward students' learning.
The Blueprint for Student-Centered Learning
Speaker 5Each of those components also has a continuum of practice so you can identify where you are within that system, and it's outlined very well within the blueprint.
Speaker 1My follow-up question from you explaining to us what the blueprint is, is what steps might a school consider when they're encountering the blueprint?
Speaker 5So the blueprint is it can be overwhelming. I mean, when you first look at it it's 42 pages, yes, but it's broken down wonderfully into the five different components. So if a teacher wants to look at it, there's a specific teaching and learning category that they can just grab that and it's color coded very pretty. And so just grabbing the teaching and learning and getting started with that, so that way maybe they can expand later to the curriculum design, but they have one focus that they can start on.
Speaker 3And I think another perspective is they're starting to grapple with the components that are most relevant to them. It should hopefully encourage them and spark that idea that they need to gather a team. This isn't just about what I'm going to change for my classroom, it's what are we going to change? Maybe within my grade level team or within my department team first, and we want to expand that out. We certainly want school leaders and district leaders to think about this as well. We can't just do it from a leadership perspective and we need the other people. I mean, one of the components is about community outreach. If we're not sharing our vision for students that are learning with our parents and our families so that they understand why we're making changes in classrooms, they're not going to be on board and it's going to be a constant battle. So really thinking about who that team is and how we're going to move that team forward to grapple this for systemic change is going to be an important component.
Speaker 5And those people who are I always do student-centered learning. They can look at the blueprint and find out where they are on the continuum of practice. And maybe they actually have gotten pretty far and they can just keep working from there. So it does hit every newbie, mid and people who have already done it a lot.
Speaker 2So this makes me wonder. When I'm thinking about, I hear student-centered learning, and in the past I've equated differentiation with student-centered learning. So how are they similar and how are they different? That's a great question.
Speaker 5Yeah, because I had actually somebody ask me the other day well, what's the difference between the blueprint and UDL? Yeah, well, there are different strategies, like UDL, the station rotation, the different strategies that everybody can use to differentiate, and so the blueprint will just kind of help them kind of figure out where they are and assist in what strategy is going to work best with those students. However, speaking of UDL, I do highly encourage using that as much as you can.
Speaker 3I think something that stands out to me is a key differentiator between differentiation and our student-centered learning is really putting that ownership in the student's hands, whereas often differentiation might be a top-down approach where a teacher is saying, okay, students need certain things, so I'm going to do the differentiation, having that student be able to access the things that are most needed by them and know which those things are. They're going to now be able to take ownership of that. And again, once you move on that continuum and you're getting into that full implementation of student-centered learning, that's what you're going to see more of in the classroom. Is it happening everywhere all the time? No, that's what you're going to see more of in the classroom. Is it happening everywhere all the time? No, but having that agency in a student's hands is going to be a key component of student-centered learning.
Speaker 2It's a game changer for the rest of their life.
Speaker 3When you start thinking about adult learning, we do take a lot more agency into the way that we learn. So if we want our students to truly be lifelong learners, we have to be building those skills for them In a safe space where they can build the skills, not just expect them to happen.
Speaker 2Yeah, I love that.
Differentiation vs. Student-Centered Learning
Speaker 1What are some of the conversations that you have with naysayers who might say, oh no, that's not going to work here, that won't work in this school. I tried it and it completely bombed. So I kept going. I went back to what I was doing. Do you see a lot of that and if so, what do those conversations look like or sound like?
Speaker 5I think one of the things that I have done is shown them the PACE data from the state. It shows that only 30% I believe across the state of students are engaged in their learning or believe that it's important for after they're done with school. So kind of addressing from that viewpoint. Let's look at the data. This is what these students are telling you. What can we do to make it better for them? Even if it's something little like if you go to remodel your kitchen, if your refrigerator is broken, you start there.
Speaker 3So even just starting small, with a little bit of an engagement strategy, and then moving on and getting a little bigger, I think when you're thinking about I'm going to come back to the systemic lens and you know you have that conversation with an individual teacher, even a principal, in a building that says, you know, we've tried to do X and it just hasn't worked out.
Speaker 3I might bring back that question of well, what conditions have you set up, what vision have you shared so that everybody's on the same page about what this should look like and how it can move forward? Having one person try in isolation and trying to establish a culture in a middle school where students might move from one classroom to another, could create confusion for the students, could create a system where, well, I like it better over there, where that teacher does X and this teacher that's asking me to do student-centered learning. It's pushing me too hard, yeah Right. So I think there's a relevance and an importance to say what are the conditions that we're establishing, both in our classrooms but within our school systems, to make sure that we're all on the same page in this. We're all trying to move it forward in a similar way. We're trying to evolve what we're doing.
Speaker 4Do we have some success stories across the state that you could share, or even districts that others could look to as a model for their practice?
Speaker 5Absolutely. We actually have some site visits set up also which are open to anyone. We have a book of stories Unleashing Learner Potential that you can find within OER Commons, the student-centered learning group in OER Commons, and it just tells a bunch. I'm not sure exactly how many we have, but probably at least 20 different stories.
Speaker 3And there are stories from all over the state, different grade levels, different formats, different approaches that people are taking to student-centered learning Because, again, it's not a one-size-fits-all approach, it's not a this is the only way to do it approach. I mean we talk about the things that are part of student-centered learning. Blended learning is part of student-centered learning Online, distance learning, you know, station rotations, personalized learning they all fit within that, what it is. So seeing different models is really valuable, and even reading those stories and deciding well, which models are the ones that I resonate the most with that I think work best in our system would be important. And then engage with a site visit, go see what that looks like, go talk to the people that are doing it, talk to the students, talk to the teachers, talk to the leaders and how it's going Following up on the site visits.
Speaker 4Is there a website to go to? Is there something we can put in our bio, in our link, so that schools can check it out?
Speaker 3So right now our student-centered learning group within OER and our PAIU OER Commons Hub is housing all the information related to the statewide work. So we're posting potential site visits as well as schools that have said, hey, we're open to a site visit. So just because the site visit is not set up yet doesn't mean there's not people that are saying, hey, come visit us. I love that. So those resources, as well as the blueprint, are all found in that student-centered learning group in our PAIU OER Commons hub. On OER Commons.
Speaker 5Just to highlight the range, I have a site visit set up with California School District. We're going to see their elementary moonshot program, which is more of a competency-based, and then I have a virtual site set up to see teachers zoom into a classroom and teach American Sign Language. So we're kind of all over and we have stories from everything in between. So lots to see and lots of good stuff going on within the state already.
Speaker 3And demonstrations of different approaches. You're going to see a more hands-on, personalized approach in one case, and another one is going to be a much more blended model approach and as people work through something like the continuum of practice for the students that are learning Blueprint, they might start in one place and say this is a place where we do feel comfortable starting. We have the resources to do this, so that makes sense. But we want to get to another component.
Speaker 2I love that.
Speaker 5It's a wide range of socioeconomic status too, we have rural we have everything in between.
Speaker 2That's awesome, Because we often hear well, that's great, but it doesn't look like my situation looks like. So to have all of those is massive. That's fantastic.
Speaker 5Well, I was in my IU. I have a district that has like 300 total kids and then I have Greater Johnst greater Johnstown school district, which is a huge city school district. So I have all everything in between. So it's really important for me at least to go out and make sure I see how to do everything within each realm.
Success Stories and Site Visits
Speaker 1Starting small is what's strongly resonating with me right now, and I love this for students that are learning, but I also love it as a practice in general for all of education. What I was thinking about is that I feel like in some ways, we can forget the importance of starting small, just as adults, because we have so much life experience. When you look back at it, that's how we started with every one of those, but then, as a teenager, when it comes to driving, we had to take it all in. That was the culmination of all these skills that we've learned. But even in that moment we had to start small and be like can I just get into the driveway without hitting anything? And then I was like now we've done that, now how do we move forward?
Speaker 1What's so valuable about this for me is it's a reminder that that's something our students need model for them as well. Like, let's start small. It doesn't have to be this huge, showy, flashy thing to get them involved. We need them to have spots that they can enter into the learning and get involved and then build that skill set in some way that they almost forget. Like, starting small is important and we remind them we have to start here to be able to build on that. Even with this podcast, we started with it. We were sitting down in a hotel room with zoom opened up and we had a conversation we weren't gonna add it.
Speaker 3We didn't need to add it. It was fine. You needed to add it. Yeah, but now you're number one in pennsylvania yep, poor pennsylvania on one website.
Speaker 2That's what mike said. He was like it's not triangulated data, so I don't know how true it is, but I was like bro, give me a win. Thank you.
Speaker 1I said, I said to Mike I'm like well, they're obviously me. Saying we're number one is not a lie. He's like, is it?
Speaker 2My 11 year old throws shade. It's awesome.
Speaker 3Now what you're saying about starting small. I think that it's a really what's that first goal that you as a student have to reach that target. And for some students, that goal might be further out than others. If I want to run a marathon, I don't start by running 26 miles, right, well, most people don't. I probably start by hey, can I run a half mile? And maybe walk a half mile, and we build up to it.
Speaker 3So we want our students to be able to set reasonable goals for them to get them to that learning target. The goal setting in itself is going to be huge, huge part of that and often is not utilized enough in a classroom, and I think it's one of the things that we talk about so many times. I go into classrooms and we talk about hey, we took the, this, the classroom diagnostic tools, we utilize those and I don't know what to do with them next. And I was like well, you have a lot of information about your students. You also know what your learning targets are. Yeah, do your students know how to get from where they are to where they're going? Yeah, are they aware of the goal setting that needs to happen to get there? I think that's an important part and that's a small first step. Any classroom teacher can make that first step.
Speaker 2Regardless of resources.
Speaker 3Regardless of resources.
Speaker 2It's not necessarily a resource heavier, resource specific thing.
Speaker 3It necessarily a resource heavier, resource specific thing it's about how can you take what you have and what's the target? What is the step that you and you and you and you, what are you going to take? And again, you might have groups that say this whole group can take a very similar goal setting approach, but then you're going to have those other students that need to set smaller goals, and that's okay. So I think you know those sort of skills, you know. I think of them as the executive functioning skills are so important and often lost or just expected. We expect that our students come with this skill, but they've never been taught that skill or it's not been modeled for them. How do we expect that they're going to have it? I think those are some things, those small steps and those small changes, and modeling for them first is one great way to do that. Leaders can model it, teachers can model it. Modeling is a big piece.
Speaker 5I think too. Going back to what you said about driving, can you imagine if you didn't pass your driver's test and we were like, okay, that's it, you don't get to drive the rest of your life? It's so important for them to understand that it's okay to not pass that first time and that they'll have the ability to continue to grow within, whatever that goal is.
Speaker 3That's such a good analogy for it that we don't just give up after that first try or just because that test ended.
Speaker 2There isn't another chance. It's going to be a massive shift for teachers and for students. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 5I heard I was at a conference on friday and professor said if, if a student doesn't show up for my final, I'll let them take it, but they automatically lose 50. What's the point?
Speaker 4so is it about the learning or is it about showing up for the final that?
Starting Small and Setting Goals
Speaker 5one day? Yeah, because if they know it, then they know it. How can you take 50 of?
Speaker 3it away. And again, that's not to say that there's not an important point behind showing up and doing the right thing, again, getting those skills in place, but when it comes down to it, what's the learning target? Yes, what did we want out of these students If the learning target was what we were measuring from what's on the test? Taking 50% away because they didn't show up doesn't help us determine if they've met learning targets.
Speaker 1True, so true. Something else that Patrice talks about a lot and it comes back to starting small is she'll say a lot that we can only change up to 10% of our practice For it to be sustainable, for it to be sustainable. And that goes back to that small piece. And again, I think, in fairness to educators, they're asked to do so many things and change so many things all at once and be all these things, but being able to allow and to give ourselves a grace and to step back and say, okay, what can I do?
Speaker 1For me, this is the gift that's coming out of this conversation is not only that you have this blueprint, right, this accessibility, this way to get in, but this kind of a model that educators can look at, but also reminding ourselves of the value of we need to think globally but then act locally. How do we start in that spot? And then also with that really impactful part where you're saying about the goal, right, what is the learning target? And it reminded me of the fail, right? That's the first attempt in learning and that's what we want to put them in a situation where they have the first attempt in learning, versus us sharing with them. Here's all the things we learned when we tried this. Now let's start here. You need to create that space, and time is going to be the biggest issue that we have, as always, as always, always. The time challenge is not going away.
Speaker 3No, no one's building days. They're 25 hours long. But I mean, I think you bring up a really good point about the importance of risk and vulnerability on everybody's part. You know, when you look at the blueprint, the first component is administration and leadership. Well, your administration and leadership has to be willing to support the efforts of doing this, and that might be risky for them being, you know, in a more traditional structure. That means they're going to be looking to see changes and that may impact the way the district leadership sees what's going on in the school. So that's a risk for them and it means they're going to have to be a little bit vulnerable.
Speaker 3And it's the same thing for each teacher. You know they're thinking about their. You know evaluations and observations, and are we going to still do as well on our state testing and are we going to? Are we going to still do as well on our state testing and are we going to still be able to meet the marks that we were meeting before by taking this risk? You know, and there are going to be times that things aren't going to work, it's not going to go perfectly. So I think those are two things that are tough to grapple with but at the same time are great models to show to our students that it's OK to be in that situation.
Speaker 1It's OK if things don't go perfectly the first time. There's going to be another opportunity, right, well, as we are unfortunately having to wind down our podcast, our episode, our time together, do either or or both of you have a final thought that you like to put out there for the change at nation?
Speaker 5I'll say for me one of my favorite quotes that I heard and I forget who said it, but one of my favorite quotes is have you taught 20 years or have you taught one year 20 times? And I think it's so important for teachers to look at themselves and ask that question and then move on from there and start small and get going.
Risk, Vulnerability and Final Thoughts
Speaker 3I love that. That's a really good one. Hard to follow up, but I will take it back to and I will come back to what is always my favorite quote Don't settle for a spark. Light a fire instead. This blueprint could start, be that first spark. Give you some ideas, help you understand where you are in the different components and in the continuum of practice. But keep things rolling. Light that fire, keep moving forward, look to evolve that practice so that you are not teaching one year 20 times. I love that.
Speaker 2I'm going to remember that.
Speaker 3Let's be on another one of those dumb chocolate things. See, that's what you should have.
Speaker 2Stop. I have plenty of things here. There's chocolate everywhere. I would have been massacred if I brought different chocolate, and I think I'll bring it tomorrow. Oh, I'll go somewhere.
Speaker 3I'll go somewhere. I'll bring it tomorrow. Okay, I don't know if you buy it in this town. I don't think you can. I'll try.
Speaker 1You have to leave the town. As we listen to and work with educators across the state and really, I think, across the nation, I think one of the biggest challenges that we hear is that the two things that you share that student-centered learning is really addressing is student ownership and student agency. We hear that they're reporting that students just don't care or they're not engaged or they want the quickest answer really a vehicle that we should look at and consider and invest in seriously, because we're trying to find ways to help with student ownership, to help with student agency, and so if that's what you're selling, that's what we're buying.
Speaker 3We'll sell it.
Speaker 1So thank you for coming on the show, thank you for sharing all of this. We will absolutely share out any additional information in our show notes so that our listeners can access all of these resources. Be sure to follow, and no one farted. I moved to my chair.
Speaker 2I didn't, I was that was super loud. I was like zoned so far out, like I was Sorry, try again.
Speaker 1Be sure to follow? Is that all you have to do? Is you follow?
Speaker 4Follow, subscribe. I was going to say don't you like and subscribe too? I know they can message too.
Speaker 1Make sure you follow, subscribe and message Tony specifically with any of your complaints.
Speaker 2No, they can legitimately text the show now.
Speaker 4Right through Spotify. Text us exactly what you think of Andrew, yeah, or?
Speaker 2not, we can start up a whole message board dedicated to Andrew.
Speaker 1That'd be great.
Speaker 2can start up a whole like message board dedicated to Andrew. I think it would feed his ego and really help us improve the show.
Speaker 1Goodbye everyone.