ChangED
ChangED is an educator based podcast for Pennsylvania teachers to learn more about the PA STEELS Standards and science in general. It is hosted by Andrew Kuhn and Patrice Semicek.
ChangED
The Science of Connection: Why Twig's Hybrid Approach Works
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Have you ever felt like the education system wasn't designed for the way you learn? You're not alone. In this deeply personal conversation, Logan Garrison of Imagine Learning takes us on a journey from his challenging educational experiences to his mission of transforming how students engage with science.
Curious about seeing these innovative approaches in action? Join us at the third annual STEELS Expo on Tuesday, May 20th, 2025, where educators will gather to share best practices and explore the future of science education. The world of learning is changing – are you ready to be part of the transformation?
Want to send us a show idea or just say hi? Email us at: thechangedpodcast@gmail.com!
Introduction and Steels Expo Overview
Speaker 1I have a microphone. No this is a really serious. Why are you guys matching too? What?
Speaker 2do you mean? Why are we matching?
Speaker 3Sir, we're professionals. I don't know why you have all these questions about the microphone and the matching uniforms.
Speaker 2Oh, we like to dress nice.
Speaker 1I didn't say you didn't like to dress nice, but professionals, I could say something off air.
Speaker 3To answer your question. We have an event today. We have to wear a uniform Through our office, so we all had to wear the same attire. You may or may not see this same attire on Tuesday, May 20th 2025.
Speaker 1You guys need to have like a song intro too.
Speaker 2I mean, we do have a song it could help you out there. It doesn't have words, though.
Speaker 3I mean which are you saying, andrew and logan? That's all I got. Wow, welcome back to change. Ed changed the number one rated education podcast in all of Pennsylvania, seeping into the other territories that are part of the United.
Speaker 2States. Did you forget what?
Speaker 3those were, yeah, I couldn't think of.
Speaker 2The Northeast region. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3Wow, I am your host, andrew Kuhn, education Consultant from Montgomery County Intermediate Unit, and here with me is Patrice Semacek, also an Education Consultant out of the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit.
Speaker 2We are fortunate to be able to be recording this podcast because Did you have to think about the word you were going?
Speaker 3to say, yeah, I actually went with like three different words. There's a lot of hesitation.
Speaker 2Right Like where do we land here?
Speaker 1No drum roll or anything. Really I feel valued.
Speaker 3We are here today, everyone, okay, this is happening, something's happening. We're actually here because, as part of what we do at Montgomery County Intermediate, we get to work with so many amazing educators and we are actually hosting a Steeles Expo. So in Pennsylvania, our new science standards actually technology, engineering and environmental literacy are called Steeles and we are hosting our third annual expo to circle the wagon, so that all of us collectively can learn from one another. Circle the wagons, I don't know, do we not?
Speaker 2circle the wagons. Why is that the term you chose?
Speaker 3We are.
Speaker 2No, I'm just wondering why that's the term.
Speaker 3We are going to circle the tricycles. Logan, we're getting to you, hold on.
Speaker 2We're convening of the minds, yeah.
Meet Logan Garrison from Imagine Learning
Speaker 3So, for this Steals Expo, we are pausing and focusing on our own learner, as lifelong learners, as educators, to learn more about Steals, what it means, what it looks like, the implications for us as educators, the implications for our students, and, as such, we have connected with so many different partners that will be there and be present, but today we have the one, the only, all the way from. Where are you from?
Speaker 1Scranton, originally from Dalton, which is outside of Scranton, but I live outside of Ardmore, so you should have learned a little bit more about me before we started this.
Speaker 2Or he could have said maybe not your physical location.
Speaker 3He is in conjunction with no, no, no, no. I want to know where he's from, because he is the mayor of scranton. I mean, when we, anywhere we go with this person, he's like oh, I know so and so, who's connected to such and such, who once had a friend, who's had a dog, who knew you and it's. It's like this. You are unbelievably all road.
Speaker 1It's the mecca. Scranton is the mecca of of. Unfortunately, it could be anywhere and you run into someone, and it happens all the time.
Speaker 3Yeah, and we'll even say to them oh, do you know, so-and-so. They're like oh, I wonder if their last name is this. That means they do this and they're connected to this. But we have here with us Logan Garrison. Welcome, logan, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1Thank you.
Speaker 3And Logan works with Imagine Learning, who is kind of a huge I would say a huge powerhouse when it comes to curriculum and instruction and supporting educators, and we are partnering with Imagine Learning for our Steeles Expo. So thank you for your partnership, Thank you for really being such a huge fan of the show. I know you write in every week Multiple episodes.
Speaker 2Have you listened to a few?
Speaker 1Yeah, I call in, but I seem to never win any prizes, so I think that I'm on the block number list oh, long time listener, first time caller.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, we're even in on your burner phones. We know, we know it's you. You know, through this partnership we have with Imagine Learning, as well as other partners, but specifically Imagine Learning, we are able to provide this needed learning for us and continued education for us as educators and tell us a little bit about you as we dive in.
Speaker 1Yeah, so I am the account executive for Imagine Learning, which I cover the core products, which I cover the core products. Our core products are illustrative math, el education, traverse, which is our history and our Twig, science.
Speaker 2It's interesting to me because I know a lot of people will use illustrative but have no connection. They're like oh, you do Twig too, like they're not. They don't make the connection sometimes.
Speaker 3I know you guys do a really good job of trying.
Speaker 1But I think it's interesting where people are like oh, we use that, yeah, we use that too, so like they're more connected to you than people think, I think sometimes so I guess the best way to describe it is our company started as digital ed tech company and about four years ago we entered the core market, understanding that we knew digital. Our digital components are working unbelievably across the nation. They wanted to get into the core market and the core market was math, ela, history and science. So they knew that we could provide the digital component. And then we're looking to purchase what they thought at the time were the best print companies and adding our own twist on it, and which we did, understanding that we could provide something that they need help in.
Speaker 1Yeah, and that's what we did and, as you know, with twig science, it is just taking off. It is probably one of my favorite things to see in a classroom. Seeing kids talk to each other, seeing them work together, seeing them problem solve, is just so important. I think we forget about it as adults, about it as adults, and when you're in a classroom of fifth graders or second graders or kindergartens, that curiosity is sparked, that hands-on, that they are just trying to figure things out, and it just brings everyone up to an equal playing field.
Personal Learning Struggles and Educational Impact
Speaker 3I know, I know this work is very personal to you. You've shared about you as a learner and the experiences that you had and what you wish you had had, and my sense is that you bring that to your work now. Like, how can I make a difference from your perspective and from where you're working at working through Imagine Learning for learners today? I was wondering if you would share a little bit more about that, like, what was your experience like and what's the difference that you're trying to make?
Speaker 1Yeah, it was not that long ago to make. Yeah, it was not that long ago. I'm 29. So it was not that long ago that it was in the classroom.
Speaker 3For all of our listeners. That is a lie. He's easily 65.
Speaker 1I act like I'm a lot older.
Speaker 2I was not thinking. I was thinking you act younger, but that's okay.
Speaker 1Okay Cut, yeah, okay Cut, but no, I never thought I would be in education, ever. My mother was a teacher and, trust me, she could vouch for the tears of me not understanding my spelling words or getting confused between there, there and there, which I still do. And education was not easy, you know, from learning to understanding, to trying my best but still struggling. And I think that that is the universe somehow collides and I ended up working with Imagine Learning, which I'm so grateful because it sparked so many memories I had growing up and the fears I had of failing, the fears of not knowing my spelling words, even though I'm trying so hard. And as a person that loves writing and having books in my hand not really a digital person I wish I had this. I wish we had the digital component that I could have went home and work through a lesson again or watch the teacher again, or take the test again, just do other things, and my mom see where I could do work and not be afraid.
Speaker 1It's just kind of crazy to think it was not that long ago I was in the classroom and how much it's changed. You know, I am tremendously grateful that I am not in the classroom now, because I think kids have so much more on their plates. I think that they, from social media to politics, to what they see, from their parents, to just everything they just have so much. They have to grow up so much faster. Yeah, and I just think, bringing it back to being hands on, and that's where I always thrived. I always thrive with hands on any type of thing in the classroom. Problems are working through things. That was my favorite thing and I think that that's what drove me so much with twig science and why I love it so much, but seeing kids work together.
Speaker 2But it's a pull entry points right, like everyone can access it, like it's not elusive in the ability to get into the science.
Speaker 1That's what I love about it yeah, I think we get siloed as adults now and we just get so used to it and we just forget what it was like being in school and those struggles and those same struggles are applied to daily life and trying to find those groups to connect to and problem solve for what is a small problem in school, but it's a big problem at that time. So just seeing this and walking through classrooms and seeing teachers happy and seeing kids communicate is so, so important, like I, just I love it.
Speaker 3Well, patrice mentioned which is one of my favorite parts about STEALS and about science and science how we're doing it now is those pathways.
Speaker 3There's all of these pathways to get into the learning.
Speaker 3Even if you're like, science isn't my jam, the beautiful thing about it being STEALS is that, while they were incorporating a lot, there could be something with technology that draws you in, or engineering, or maybe we're talking about the environmental part.
Speaker 3So there's all these different aspects for you to get involved and maybe help you along the journey or get you into it. So what I'm hearing you say is that we usually only think there's one way to be part of education, but there's actually more than one way, because without the work that you're doing, you know these are important resources that teachers look to and that they rely on and that they build upon and they design their curriculum and how they teach based off the materials you provide. But if you decided yeah, you know I'm not going into education and you weren't doing that, then those resources would not get to where they need to be. They wouldn't get to the people who they they impact and you know, for me it was like just so many. You're like a hidden figure, right, you're kind of doing all this work and trying to get what's needed to the people that need it.
Speaker 1What would have helped me then would have been something that we provide now.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Just looking at that, if I could take the pain away from a kid of what it was like for me just to save one, I would do it. Or if I could save more, I think that's the biggest thing.
Education Evolution and Hybrid Learning Approaches
Speaker 2Yeah, I just had this conversation with my brother the other day about it, because my brother and I had very different learning experiences. I was on one end of a spectrum and he was on another end of a spectrum and he left school feeling like he wasn't smart and my brother is probably way smarter than I am, but I was in a gifted program by accident and because he had teachers who were great and they were trying everything they had in their toolbox at the time in the 90s. Right, he didn't get the ability to feel as successful as kids now could because of all the differentiated instruction, because of all the access to tools and things like that. So I completely agree with you, Logan five, six, seven years it's been a tremendous explosion, sometimes almost too much, in terms of the access to resources and things like that. That could be a little overwhelming on the other, on the opposite of the spectrum. But yeah, it's, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 1You know, I look at some of my friends and they are, you know, doing really well, but they lack a lot of kind of hands-on and working and I mean I grew up doing that. You know electrical work or you know cabinetry or simple math, or just you know angles and and they can't figure that out. That to me is like I'm like whoa, we're all gifted in different ways, yeah. Yeah, I think that that also shoots down the kids that aren't gifted. They're not well, what are what are they? They they're good at something. What are they good at? Because they could be in a gifted program of something else and building that confidence up. Because if a kid feels that they're not valued like anyone does, they don't want to put any work in, they don't want to Right, they want to do it if they don't feel that they are valued.
Speaker 2Well, and we're learning that the skills that are actually needed now in the workforce aren't the kids that can rote, memorize things right, aren't the kids that can just get the straight A's or get all the answers. It's the people that know how to problem solve, how to communicate, how to make those connections between things that sometimes are more gifted and advanced. Kids don't do as well.
Speaker 1I and I think that that is my main mantra in life is that I've always been known as the fixer. I love the fix and I love to be the connector. I may not know it all, but I will find you someone that will, and it'll be a professional. You'll get the whatever you're working on, you'll get the right person. But I'm not going to stand up here and tell you that I know everything and I want to get you to your solution faster. So you talking to me is wasting time. So let's get you to the right person in my company and you've talked to them and we'll problem solve.
Speaker 3I think that actually a lot of that comes down to your own experiences, where you had to navigate those pathways on your own.
Speaker 3And so now that you're doing it, you're like, how can I help you on your journey? Which is a very reflective and forward thinking position. It's incredible to me that the experience you had with over these 29 years to now that if Logan was born now, it would be a very different experience. Not because of the effort that you put forward or the effort that others in your community right, you were talking about your teachers not because they didn't put together offer an incredible effort, but more because of all the additional accessibility options that are available and we still have a long way to go. But what I was hearing you say was that if you had these technologies available now, it might have really helped you in in that, if you had these technologies available now, it might've really helped you in that learning. So we've come such a long way and we've learned so much. Those weren't available to you, but it was only 29 years ago. We're not actually talking about 200 years ago About 29.
Speaker 1I think you need either our imagine math or a lush of math so you could figure out how to do math. But I am 29 years old. If it wasn't 29 years ago, that would make me very old.
Speaker 2Wow. So, Wow, Very old yeah To be. In what high school or elementary school? Where are we going with this Logan, Because I'm about to be offended.
Speaker 1Well, if it was 29 years ago and I was 29, it's.
Speaker 2Okay, if it was 29 years ago and I was 29, that's Okay, okay, okay, I'll give you that. I think you were. I was thinking you were saying elementary school. I feel like I was in elementary school.
Speaker 3I clearly was not the product of any imagined learning, because I can't math, but the point being, in your lifetime there have been tremendous advancements and that now there's an ability to use those advancements to help those learning and help those in education. So we're learning and we're continuing on as we learn.
Speaker 1But I think, from the Twig side, I think the Twig side I would like to say it's hybrid, so you could pick it from either you want to be hands-on or do you want to do it digitally, you know. So there's that hybrid and that's what we're learning.
Speaker 2But I think that's important to go along with what Andrew's saying about the way that we're learning. There should be opportunities for hybrid options. Right, there should be times where we are learning through doing things, but also opportunities to read about and to expand our knowledge and to maybe there aren't opportunities. We can't all have microscopes that are strong enough to look down at blood cell structures or look at even how, like the chloroplasts of plants, things like that, like we don't have all of that necessarily at our fingertips.
Speaker 2But we do have opportunities, like you're saying, for hybrid opportunities, where maybe we could pull in a video that makes the most sense, I think that's what's so great about what's going on with curriculum now is that there are so many options, so you make a very great point that it really does give people the opportunity to do what's best for them in that moment.
Speaker 1And I think from your point, andrew, about how we've changed so much. In the last wrong math was 29 years, but we've changed so much in such a short time. Not only teachers have to pivot, not only districts have to pivot and not only do parents and family members have to pivot too, because when they hear someone learning like, well, what are you doing? Well, why are you doing it that way? It's breaking that mold and we've needed to do it for a while where it's not, you know, watching and sitting and getting and and repeating. It's working together. You know it's problem solving and I think with Twig Science, that's what I love so much about it.
Speaker 1How much we have changed with hybrid cars and electric cars. That is what Twig Science is. It's providing actual physical teacher's edition, student edition, lab kit and it's also providing the digital component, which is everything is digital. So if you want to use your teacher's edition on your iPad, you can Do. You want to edit that? Do you want to put in a video? Do you want to watch one of our videos that are all in-house, you know? Do you want to do a hands-on investigation in the classroom or do you want to do the hands-on investigation virtually on the laptop when it's a snow day, you know. So that's what I love about it. You know you can do extra work if you so choose or you don't.
The Power of Problem-Solving in Science Education
Speaker 3Well, look, I'll tell you this. You are absolutely our favorite person on the podcast right now, our favorite guest. Thank you for coming on, and here's what I'm going to give for you, sir, because not just because you've never listened before, because you've never listened to the podcast, this is going to sound like a treat and for management learning, because you're such good partners, I want to give you the second to last final word. Do you have a final thought, something you want to share, or wrap up, or put a big bow on it for everybody, or wrap up or put a big bow on it for everybody when you're making a decision for a product.
Speaker 1A decision like this for your district is a large purchase. It will affect your work, It'll affect your community. Making a decision that fast is scary, I think, and I just wish that people would have more trust. I would rather them come to a district and see it working, see it live. I have to listen to this podcast before we air it, so I'm like cut this, cut that.
Speaker 1You do not get creative control, sir Executive producer over here, Like I said, if you want to do science, do twig science. If you want to watch science, then go with someone else. It's like the old Tommy boy saying don't want to watch science, then go with someone else. It's like the old tommy boy saying don't want to go with the other brake pad guy oh boy, you're bringing in the great philosopher tommy boy.
Speaker 3So much wisdom there. But, logan, thank you for coming on. Thank you for making yourself vulnerable and coming on a podcast and sharing a lot about who you are, but also the great work that's happening through Imagine Learning and specifically TWIG, is it's going to impact our participants at the expo. There's two things that really stick out here for me. Number one is that there's a lot that's changed with the steel standards as compared to the science standards that there were before. So when you're looking to partner with someone, you should be looking for those changes. Are they talking to me about this, so that I've always heard a curriculum company talk to me about curriculum? Or, as you've so eloquently put through this podcast, is this a hybrid approach? Am I hearing some of what I know but also a bridge to what's new? Am I finding things that will help me put this together, or is there a totally new approach that I should maybe be open to, because there might be things that I'm missing?
Speaker 3So what I'm hearing you say about the approach that Twig is taking is that they're actually modeling these new steel standards, that they're showing what they look like from a curriculum standpoint, and it's important for all educators to not just dismiss that but to actually lean into that and say what is it that's different? What is it here that I should be looking at and how can this be a resource for me and maybe even a tool for me to better understand on my journey of learning when it comes to these new standards? And then, secondly this is something that I've experienced as my own personal journey in life the way that things begin is very often the way that they end. So I'm hearing you say so many things about I just want to make sure that I can provide the support you need. If I don't have the answer, I'm going to go find it, but I can confirm that because I've seen that happen in action.
Final Thoughts and Expo Invitation
Speaker 3It's not just words, it's who you are as a person. So I think very much not only is the product important, but also who it is you're interacting with and the relationship you have with them. And that's the part where it's like if I'm having a hard time connecting, if I'm having a hard time getting information from you or seeing that you care, that doesn't really change once you sign on the dotted line. And so a relationship with someone like you, logan, and there are others out there too who are so passionate about this learning and so passionate about what we're doing. Find those people, seek out those people, logan, we look forward to seeing Twig at the Expo this year. It is Tuesday, may 20th. Make sure that you do everything in your power to be there for the greatest SEALs Expo on earth.
Speaker 2And thank you to Imagine Learning for being our partners. We're very fortunate to have you guys be a platinum sponsors and to be so generous and to help our educators get where they need to go in terms of their learning. So we're very grateful to be doing business with you guys.
Speaker 1Thank you.