Reimagining Education Through Collective Growth

 Join Andrew and Patrice as they dive deep with retiring educator Amber Molloy, whose 30-year journey through teaching reveals timeless wisdom about educational transformation. From middle school classrooms to system-wide leadership, Amber shares how focusing on the "why" rather than just the "what" creates lasting change in education. This engaging conversation explores the power of collective learning, the importance of questioning, and how building strong learning communities can transform both students and educators alike. Whether you're a classroom teacher, administrator, or anyone passionate about education, this episode offers fresh insights on moving from transactional to transformational learning.

About our guest:
Amber Molloy served as the Program Administrator for Literacy and the Instructional Coach Mentor in the Office of Professional Learning at Montgomery County Intermediate Unit. She has a passion and commitment to lead colleagues forward guiding curriculum development, refining instructional practices and designing assessments that support learning. She's skilled in long-range planning and the creation of infrastructure to support the growth of teachers, schools, and districts. With over 20 years of experience within the North Penn School District, Amber has served as a classroom teacher with leadership responsibilities in the areas of literacy, math, science, and use of technology to enhance instruction, and has also served as reading specialist, RTII District Implementation Coordinator and K-12 Supervisor of Literacy developing systems and structures to promote diagnostic and prescriptive instruction within a responsive teaching framework.

Through her many years in the field, Amber continues to have curiosity and passion for the human element of our work. She enjoys reading, watching and reflecting on leadership, relationship and how we can better support each other and work together to evolve our educational systems to support the learners of tomorrow. Our future is in their hands! 

Want to send us a show idea or just say hi? Email us at: thechangedpodcast@gmail.com!

Transcript

Andrew Kuhn 0:05

welcome back to change ed, the number one podcast that you are currently listening to this very moment the number one that you are currently listening to yep yeah, as compared to the one that you're not listening to which is not your current number one listener, that's right, I am your host, Andrew Kuhn, education consultant from the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit, number 23.

Patrice Semicek 0:30

And here with me is Patrice Semicek, also an education consultant from the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit, number 23.

Andrew Kuhn 0:41

Should we have something new on today's show? Never happened before.

Patrice Semicek 0:48

As opposed to the other guests.

Andrew Kuhn 0:49

Every other show that we have. We have a almost retiree on our show.

Patrice Semicek 0:55

When this comes out, she will have been retired for like three days.

Andrew Kuhn 0:59

So she's retired.

Patrice Semicek 1:00

Yeah, it makes me sad. I'm going to miss her.

Andrew Kuhn 1:03

Yeah, one of ours.

Patrice Semicek 1:04

Too bad, you can't retire.

Andrew Kuhn 1:08

Our office. We have with us here Amber Malloy. Amber, welcome to Gene Jed.

Amber Molloy 1:16

Thank you.

Andrew Kuhn 1:16

We're super glad to have you here. We find ourselves having so many wonderful deep intellectual conversations with you and we're glad to actually be able to capture it on the podcast.

Amber Molloy 1:26

Memorialize, I think, is what she's called it. Memorialize, that's kind of the adult word, that's kind of scary yeah.

Andrew Kuhn 1:31

That's a lot of letters, not just banter, not just philosophical banter.

Patrice Semicek 1:37

It can be that too. Yeah, it's just recorded All above. So we have to behave, so we have to behave.

Andrew Kuhn 1:41

Would you mind introducing yourself to the ChangeEd Nation please?

Amber Molloy 1:46

Sure, amber Malloy, been in the field for just over 30 years, have a pretty diverse history that a lot of people aren't aware of. I started back in middle school. It was my first teaching experience. Love that age, still love that age. Then moved to the classroom, taught in fifth grade for a bit and then immediately made the switch into reading, pursued my reading specialist cert, and I did that because I had started my master's in language and literacy. So I was fascinated with the impact that language has on understanding and thinking and how can we grow better thinkers in our classroom. So that was really at the start of my career, which is fascinating that. That's kind of where we are now at the end of my career.

Amber Molloy 2:28

But because language and literacy wasn't a degree in the local area, I finished it as a reading cert, stepped in a reading cert position, a reading specialist position in the North Penn School District and at the same time North Penn had just opened a partnership with the Merck Institute for Science Education and as a classroom teacher, science was a passion. Actually, in college I started my degree in biology, did that for two years, so I have a rich history in science and in math as well. So I saw this as an opportunity that if they would take me because I saw myself then as oh, I'm this reading lady down the hall, but if they would take me into this program, which was a pretty intense teacher leadership program that North Penn had in partnership with Merck, with cohorts also in New Jersey and Raleway as well, I was like if they could take me, I really think I could complement the work of science with my knowledge and understanding of language, literacy and reading development. So it was kind of a I'll apply and we'll see. And they accepted me into the program. So that was a 10-year partnership with the Merck Institute for Science Education.

Amber Molloy 3:30

I spent three intense summers in different fields of science earth, life and physical science and really worked with a whole cohort across North Penn around shifting the collective narrative around how we quote, teach science, which was really exciting for me as like someone who was leaving the classroom and studied reading and language and probably the most impactful professional learning experience I've ever been a part of in my career, because of the intensity, because of the experiential component of it and just the community that we all learned and challenged each other in.

Amber Molloy 4:05

So that was amazing. So I did that for a bit and then I just continued to serve in North Penn an incredible community, a diverse environment, 18 schools, 13 elementary schools, community of reading specialists that was so robust, so smart, taught me so much, stepped into a role I guess it's leading coordinating the implementation of RTII at the time and I built the model for that, did that for a bit, then stepped into supervisor of literacy position and served there for a bit and then landed here at the IU when the Office of Professional Learning opened. Because I think, ultimately, I've learned throughout my journey that what I am most passionate about is adults and growing those around us, and I think that's really my passion point. So there's my experiences.

Andrew Kuhn 4:54

So what I heard in your title was Amber Molloy.

Patrice Semicek 4:57

There was no title, jill of all trades. There was.

Andrew Kuhn 4:59

Master of even more than she just mentioned.

Patrice Semicek 5:02

Yes, yes, all true things, but she said no title of even more than she just mentioned.

Andrew Kuhn 5:06

Yes, yes, all true things, but she said no title.

Amber Molloy 5:08

But we do titles here, you do titles here I think that, and isn't it fascinating in our profession that every organization has a different name for the same job?

Patrice Semicek 5:17

We have literally had this conversation with everybody at every other IU, like Tony, for example, does the same thing we do, but he has a staff development facilitator.

Amber Molloy 5:28

SDF.

Patrice Semicek 5:29

And I don't even think SDF, but I don't even think that we. My email signature may not be the title that I use in this podcast. I'm reflecting on that now. I'm pretty sure I've made up that I'm an education, not educational. I'm an education consultant. I don't know what my email says I don't think it matters.

Amber Molloy 5:48

For me it's never mattered. It's mattered who I serve in that role and I think through my career I can say well, I served the sixth grade social studies students and I served my fifth grade classroom and really at that time that's all I served. I served my fifth grade classroom and really at that time that's all I served. I served my fifth grade families, my students, and then, as I had the opportunity throughout my career, I served larger and larger audiences. But ultimately to me, no matter what the title was, I was able to define it as how I could serve and grow those around me, whether it be my students, my families, those around me, whether it be my students, my families, my colleagues, my learning partners and I've always surrounded myself with strong learning partners.

Amber Molloy 6:33

And I remember when I left North Penn and came to the IU. I remember my tearful moments. I cry a lot, but just saying to my reading specialist team is I never, I am only. I was scared to leave because I really saw myself only to be as strong as those around me and they were the ones that built me up, not me, and I always have served from that way. I'm only the connector, I'm the one that challenges your thinking, and I always say to people if I'm in your head after we leave, I've done my job, because all I want to do is slow you down, to help you think through your actions, and no matter what my title is, that's ultimately the work I've done. Change agent changing it.

Andrew Kuhn 7:11

For sure we've been doing.

Andrew Kuhn 7:13

This podcast is our second season and through this work we've been able to see themes that arise, not just based off of content area but in education, and things that we feel very passionate about and feel are a move to do. But that's two seasons and you've had a number of seasons of this work in a number of different arenas, and so I'm curious to hear maybe some of those themes that you saw that came up, that you know, you see in education, that you said you've done work in science and in literacy and science and literacy together and across the board. Are there themes for things that you see that come across for you?

Amber Molloy 7:51

I think that when I reflect back on all that I've seen, which is crazy to think that I'm this old all of a sudden. But 36,.

Andrew Kuhn 7:58

it's terrible I know it's great.

Amber Molloy 8:00

No, let's be clear, I'm going out early, everyone. Early retirement, early Okay.

Patrice Semicek 8:03

Early retirement.

System Alignment for Sustainable Change

Amber Molloy 8:05

She is 27. There you go, but I think that content may change. Content changes, but what never changes are the systems that support the content. Let me be clear there it's not around that they don't change, because many need to change. But I think often, when we implement change, we're focused on the wrong thing. And I think there, when we implement change, we're focused on the wrong thing and I think there's too much focus on the what, and now I think our education is becoming industry and we're focusing on what's celebrated and magnified and is the moneymaker in the environment, versus the actual root of the change, which is the human and the why yeah, human.

Amber Molloy 8:41

And the why, yeah, and I feel like early on, even in my work in North Penn, it was always the what, how, why. But those who know me know it's really the why first, you know it's the why, and then maybe the what and maybe the how, I don't know, but for me it's always the why and the how, because the why and the how, if we can get our systems aligned around purpose and procedure, change occurs at a faster rate and I think it sustains for a longer amount of time. I was just about to say it's more sustainable when you understand the why.

Amber Molloy 9:11

Yeah, and the how, like. I think the how of a system is the alignment of a system and as powers shift in systems, or people shift at the powerful levels in systems, the alignment is lost. Yeah, or people shift at the powerful levels in systems, the alignment is lost, and we've seen so much change in our field in the last 10 years. The alignment is lost, except for systems who focused on process and procedure, and in those systems you can see change. They respond to change in a more fluent, fluid way.

Patrice Semicek 9:42

Yeah, I think too, in those systems, regardless of who is at the helm, if you focused on what you're saying in a system, the system will continue to make that change, regardless of who is at the helm, until there's a disruptor that like takes it completely off course. Yeah, I think we do ourselves a disservice by not focusing on the larger picture so much.

Amber Molloy 10:03

Well, that's the transactional element is so much easier than the transformational work, and I think we do ourselves a disservice by not focusing on the larger picture so much. Well, that's the transactional element is so much easier than the transformational work, and I think that's where I've invested a lot of my time as a learner in leadership is to understand models of leadership that have the most lasting impact, and I think it parallels parenting in some way.

Amber Molloy 10:21

And maybe that's why I went that route parenting in some way and maybe that's why I went that route. What I did is I do have three boys that are in their 20s and to raise them as adults and as people. It's about transformation and it's about helping them to see their gifts and their strengths and what they offer. And I think if we can work in systems and quote, raise systems in that same way of aligning the strengths and helping people see what they have to offer, and it's not about transactional production.

Andrew Kuhn 10:49

I had a very impactful mentor of mine who said something very similar to what you said, but unfortunately they're not here right now, so, but they said that everyone's trying to recreate the wheel, but the reality is that the wheel's already been created. We just redecorate it and it looks different, but we're all focused on recreating the wrong thing. How do we make these adjustments and make it look different? So that actually happens a lot in education. We were so focused on STEM, now we're very focused on STEELs. We're still looking at integration and how we bring together all these pathways when we say we're looking at integration.

Patrice Semicek 11:28

I'm not sure we're really actually looking at integration. I think, if anything, the STEM movement showed us that we don't really want to integrate and the battle that is fought, or has been fought, kind of and I don't mean to interrupt you, but I kind of do the battle that has been fought for the integration stem could have been an amazing thing. Steals or stream or whatever we're going to call it could have been something amazing that could have been transformative in the interconnectedness of content and learning. But I think, if anything, that movement definitely showed us how siloed we are and how siloed most of us want to be.

Andrew Kuhn 12:05

So, going off that, I'll jump on what you said as well Amber of that transaction versus transformational. So the concept of STEM, of steals is transformational, but we're stuck in a transactional mindset.

Patrice Semicek 12:19

Yes, yes, yes yes.

Andrew Kuhn 12:20

That's like and it actually connects to other conversations we've had about an infinite game versus a finite game. That all kind of comes back to the mindset.

Patrice Semicek 12:28

Can you tell who we're reading? I?

Amber Molloy 12:29

love yeah, simon.

Andrew Kuhn 12:33

But that idea of, like you know, do we have this? For me it broadens this concept of the fixed mindset versus the growth mindset which we've had in our vernacular, in our field Forever For gazillion years, right?

Amber Molloy 12:45

So another example as a transactional topic yeah, Correct.

Andrew Kuhn 12:48

Yeah, another example of we're just redecorating the wheel right, we're still kind of hovering over the same concept, but we're expanding our vernacular around it to include others in different ways.

Patrice Semicek 12:59

Or repackaging it so it can be sold to be more transactional, like I feel like when we think about all of the STEM, stream, steam, all of that, it's all the same thing. It's all 21st century learning, which again is another term to sell more books or have more PD, or more whatever around the same thing. What?

Andrew Kuhn 13:20

You're in a place today. This is a fun place.

Patrice Semicek 13:22

What do you mean? I'm in a place today. I'm just listening to you. Yeah, usually you're the sunshine and yeah.

Andrew Kuhn 13:25

You're in a place today. This is a fun place. What do you mean? I'm in a place today Just listening to you.

Patrice Semicek 13:28

Yeah, usually you're the sunshine and rainbows person.

Andrew Kuhn 13:30

Well, you poked the bear a little too much today.

Patrice Semicek 13:32

I just going back to what you're saying. We repackaged, we repainted the wheel a million times and it's kind of like unit-based teaching or theme-based teaching we were doing back when I started back when I was in school. We used to teach rainbows and butterflies, to use your term. We used to teach rainbows and butterflies, to teach photosynthesis or whatever we're doing for six weeks, and then we'd move on to the next step. That was project-based learning, that was STEM steel stream whatever it was all that, but that was bad.

Patrice Semicek 14:05

That was bad for a little while, not that we're coming back to ematic teaching what I think we keep coming back to.

Amber Molloy 14:12

Oh, this is actually what we meant by it.

Patrice Semicek 14:14

Yeah.

Amber Molloy 14:14

Because I think what happens is things explode. When I was a part of the Merck Institute for Science Education and we were looking at how we taught science, and how we wanted to provide more experiential opportunities or phenomena exposures.

Amber Molloy 14:29

Right, we wanted to provide that and at the time, bringing me in as, like, the reading specialist to complement that, it wasn't a deeper dialogue around using language to grow, thinking of that, it was around can we get the set of books that align to that kit as a way to infuse? And then that's not what we meant. That's not what we meant, but that's how we put it into action at the time. But was it great? Yeah, because did the books as a read-a-lot in the classroom or as a center to explore help the background knowledge for students, as they could take that information into their scientific exploration and understand it at a deeper level.

Patrice Semicek 15:06

So, yeah, I think it was good, but did we collectively all get behind the why we were doing that. That's the concern of 20 of you that were in that program totally knew the why behind it because you were immersed in that learning. I think sometimes what happens in our field and I know this is where I struggle a little bit and how do I convey my messaging I have spent know this is where I struggle a little bit and how do I convey my messaging. I have spent because I'm afforded to in my job weeks, months, years building my pedagogy and my thinking around the why for why we do what we do right.

Patrice Semicek 15:37

I fully believe in PBL and STEM and steel. I fully believe in it because I know the impact that I can have, because I have been able to have the time to dive into that, the conveying of the message around that taking that experience you had has transformed you as a learner and a thinker and a leader. But how do we get that to people who have not been afforded?

Patrice Semicek 15:58

that opportunity, because when I see text being presented to me, I'm seeing it as something that my supervisor told me I should implement this and this, this and this and I don't understand the why behind it. I think that's where we're kind of getting lost in the messaging sometimes. So I think that when, when we go back to thank you, when we go back to a district issuing a resource or materials to supplement our learning, the people who are a part of the pilot or a part of the building of the curricular resource get it, but the dissemination of that information and the how and the why I think gets lost and then we end up with page turners that don't get the why. I feel like there's a hole in professional development that we could work towards filling if more of our PD was focused less on content-specific stuff and more on understanding why.

Amber Molloy 16:48

I think that has to do with not professional development but a culture for professional learning. And I think that Thank you for fixing that language.

Patrice Semicek 16:56

Yeah.

Amber Molloy 16:57

But the language, the way you articulated, though, is typically what happens is because when you get a new resource, my goodness, teachers need to know what is all this. How does it work? I need to know the nuts and bolts, no different than handing them a new resource. My goodness, teachers need to know what is all this, how does it work? I need to know the nuts and bolts, no different than handing them a new device, and they need to know how do I turn it on, how do I plug it in, what do I do with it. I think that's foundational, but it can't stop there. So if it stops there, it's not professional learning. If the culture is not a learning culture, it will fail. So then I feel like we have to really again look deeper into the processes in the system. How are we aligned in our system? What do we value in our system? How do we honor the adult learners in our system, All of the adult learners in our system, not just the ones that raise their hand because they can stay after on Tuesday to build the new curriculum right? So how do we honor everyone in our system to be a learner at various points?

Amber Molloy 17:58

The greatest thing thread when you asked me under like what are common threads that I've seen over my career, over and over and over and over and over? What I point back to always is the self-efficacy of the adult learner. I can learn, I can make change, I can grow those in my audience to the collective efficacy across the system that we're all learning around this thing. We're all experimenting. I think that's the other thing in our field. That's a challenge is that we are never finished learning, ever, because the variable in our classroom is constantly changing the humans we have now very different humans than we had 30 years ago. So if I haven't continued to challenge myself to grow, I'm likely not serving them to the best capacity. And I guess, going back to who I am and serving those I serve, I serve adults now. So if I don't continue to grow my, my Amber Goji around growing adults, I'm not serving them as best I could and that's who I've always been. But I think to me the common thread always is around the collective moving in the same direction.

Andrew Kuhn 19:11

Did you call it Amber Goji? Amber goji? Yeah, I love it. I would say yes, she did.

Amber Molloy 19:14

Is that what you said?

Patrice Semicek 19:14

you said, andrew goji I said andrew goji oh, you said andrew goji yeah, and no, andrew goji is a real word, I know.

Andrew Kuhn 19:20

But well, I now I thought we're throwing out names, so I was like yes andrew is in the goji. I got it.

Patrice Semicek 19:28

I thought you first went with amber it would have been amazing if she said amber goji.

Andrew Kuhn 19:32

That's what I thought I was like yes you're for your own self.

Andrew Kuhn 19:34

My new, yes, my new field yeah, if you don't have an a name too bad, you can't have the goji no goji for you well, my question in all of this is could this be like creating a meal and you have all of the right ingredients, which is key to make this meal, but the part that could be off is that we don't have the right amounts of each thing? So, yes, we're trying to make some sort of casserole, but the casserole is going to taste off because we've got too much salt or we've got too much of something. And my wondering is are we in that spot where, within our system, we have these things that we look at? We look at to evaluate how we're doing, to hold accountability, but could some of those things be off to where we're trying to get a quick answer versus, again, transactional versus transformational? So one of the things and the reason I'm bringing this up when I look at my view of your career is that you're able to take data and not just look at it from a macro view, but you're able to get down to a micro view to say what was the change that we actually implemented here?

Andrew Kuhn 20:42

We went in half of the result just from this professional learning, but we saw growth in conversations, or growth in questions, or growth in questions or growth in what are we getting back. Are they asking for more? Where are they headed? So I feel like you're able to mine through that to say, okay, yeah, overall this is a huge success. But what does that mean? We can't just walk away on the win of this, yeah what's next?

Andrew Kuhn 21:03

Yeah, great, Pat on the back is like where do we go now? What does that mean? What do they need? What's next? Yeah, great, pat on the back is like where do we go now? What does that mean? What do they need? And I think that to me is very impactful in my career. But also I see a very strong, definitive thing for your career where you weren't satisfied with just a slap on the back. I did and I'm done. Yeah, you wanted-.

Patrice Semicek 21:19

You're never done.

Andrew Kuhn 21:20

You wanted more. There was more work to be done and as a model for which we're going to get to in a minute all of your people of like we're not just done right, like it's not just this Constant growth. Right yeah, constant growth. So I think it's to be noted for you as an individual, that's why you have your Amber Goji, because it's always you're never done.

Amber Molloy 21:41

Well, I think it's just, it's yeah, it's that mindset of growth and learning and I think that's ultimately it Systems that are aligned around growing and learning. That's the through line. Your adults in your space are all learning and growing and then as leaders, if we can help just kind of map out a learning path. So if you can stay with me on this path, as a collective we're going to be traveling down the same path. Now that doesn't mean you don't stop along the way and admire the roses and go off over here and deepen in your learning down another avenue. You're still adjacent to my path and I'll bring you back onto the path and now I'm going to honor that extra learning you got outside the path and bring it into my collective.

Amber Molloy 22:24

And I think whenever I've had the opportunity to actually honestly have the joy of holding a collective. That to me, is what has fed me my entire career. It's magical because in a collective you have so many diverse perspectives no different than a classroom, right. So when I had my collective of my fifth grade classroom, when it all started, it was all about the humans in my space and how we created the community and that's who we are as educators. That's what we do. But to take that to the adult level, sometimes that's missed and it's, I think, the difference in leadership styles. We know we can study the field of leadership, what kind of leaders people are, but for me, the collective, to take a collective and have us all learn and grow, but at the same time that we're all learning together. Yes, we can do a common book read. Sure, we can all explore the same philosophy by some author, fine. But what's most powerful is when those within the collective research and read in the ancillary stuff.

Patrice Semicek 23:24

Bring things to the group.

Amber Molloy 23:25

And bring it to the group, and to me that's the collective, though, and the other powerful thing is we're questioning, we're not following lockstep one philosophy, one author, we're bringing in more research, and I love that idea of and maybe that's my Merck work back in the day is we were teachers as researchers, as teacher leaders in the landscape, so Merck was supporting us with the content and supporting us with the pedagogy of what it looks like with students, but then we were playing with that.

Embracing Questioning and Continuous Growth

Patrice Semicek 23:53

Right, I think, a testament to your leadership style. The fact that as a leader, you not only allow but encourage questions is a very different approach than most people are used to. I'm not sure many leaders, administrators, whatever we want to call them and a leader and administrator are two different things but I'm not sure there is the culture of let's ask the question and I could easily see how someone who is not used to let's ask the question but I'm also going to ask questions- too, yeah, I have not had the pleasure of you being my supervisor, but I have had the pleasure of you being my friend so I appreciate that I could see how it would be intimidating to work for someone like you as a rule follower, because I would assume now knowing you.

Patrice Semicek 24:44

I know this is not the case Because I would assume now knowing you. I know this is not the case but initially, if I'm not used to this culture that's been created, I'm a new person in someone asking me questions about what I'm doing or why I'm doing it and what I'm thinking, because if I'm not used to articulating my thinking, it would feel almost like you don't trust what I'm doing.

Patrice Semicek 25:05

But what I have learned from you is the way in which you ask the question changes the response. The relationship that you develop with the person makes a massive difference, because then it is not assumed that you're coming at me asking me questions because I'm not competent. So I think that I don't want to say well for me, for me, what you have changed in me is a few things. You have allowed me to ask the question, feel like it's okay to not have the answers, because I've always felt like I need to have the answer.

Patrice Semicek 25:42

So I appreciate your leadership style because, while you are not my supervisor, you are always someone that I can come to and say I'm unsure. And the comfort of being able to have someone in a leadership role, to be able to be vulnerable enough to say I'm unsure, I need your help, is a massive, massive support that I'm not sure everyone has everywhere. So I can see how, when I'm looking back at the last two months of the love of Amber that has just been coming in, the impact that you have had because of who you are as a human is. I don't think many people are going to surpass that. So I am not going to cry, but I am going to cry. Thank you, that's all I'm done.

Amber Molloy 26:26

Wow, go. I thank you and I think that there's. I'm humbled by everything that people have been saying about me and to me, and what's fabulous is what I keep being reminded of I'm not going anywhere, I'm just slowing down.

Patrice Semicek 26:42

And it's a new beginning. It's a new beginning, yeah.

Amber Molloy 26:44

And there's too much that I've honed in my skillset over the years to just not continue to serve.

Amber Molloy 26:51

And when you say me as a human, I think that I've always held the belief that as a human, I need to continue to evolve and grow and learn and I am so forever grateful to the mentors that I had in the North Penn School District who they've 100% made me who I am as a leader and sparked the interest in leadership and continued to just fuel my flame just to be better and better. Some of the things that you said that I just want to call out is like back to this collective that I build, whether that is a large community, a classroom, a large cohort of teachers, but to me that community is a collective in learning and in problem solving.

Amber Molloy 27:36

And so it's not around. I think my asking of questions, my goal, is to model the behavior so that we can all ask that of each other. But what's most important is, you're not just questioning your system, you're problem solving to grow your system. And that's the difference, because I think we start by questioning well, why did she do that? Why did they make that decision? Versus wait, I wonder why they made that decision and what if? What if we tried things this way, would our collective momentum accelerate, like so, building an opportunity for that? What if? So it's not just the questioning, like you say, is like oh, sometimes that's that. What if? So? It's not just the questioning, like you say is like oh, sometimes that's like you're judging me, you're threatening me, whatever.

Amber Molloy 28:18

And then I can't talk about this without calling out the intense study that I have taken on in this arena of coaching, and I think that stems from 30 years ago when I was in working as a reading specialist, and I have always seen my work as growing readers, as me coaching readers. I want readers to explore the world and question and seek out new information, to continue to recreate their belief structure, and I want them to continue to read and read and read right. So that idea of questioning and coaching, I think, stems to who I am as an educator. That was my fifth grade classroom and now we're circling all back around to this idea of what is STEALS, what is STEM, what is inquiry-based instructional design 30 years ago. It's truly lighting a fire in our learners, be them four-year-olds or 44-year-olds, is how are we creating a system of asking questions about the world around us?

Andrew Kuhn 29:26

patrice, we've been finding ourselves in a amazing scenario where we're having multiple crossover episodes. It's not just one episode, but there are two because we're having multiple crossover episodes it's not just one episode, but there are two because we're having great conversations.

Patrice Semicek 29:37

Well and yeah, we don't want to bore people with an hour podcast. But honestly these could be an hour. Maybe we should do special editions. Like here's the whole one hour interview.

Andrew Kuhn 29:49

Yeah, two for the price of one If you want to listen to it. Short One for the price of two, one for the price of one If you want to listen to it short One for the price of two.

Patrice Semicek 29:54

One for the price of two? I don't know, that does not sound appealing. I don't want to pay Well but you can listen, they can pay us, because twice of zero is still zero.

Andrew Kuhn 30:04

Yeah, so here we are, continuing our conversation with Amber Malloy.

Patrice Semicek 30:11

Yeah, I'm still sad. Gonna miss her A lot. We'll have lunch, not with you though.