ChangED
ChangED is an educator based podcast for Pennsylvania teachers to learn more about the PA STEELS Standards and science in general. It is hosted by Andrew Kuhn and Patrice Semicek.
ChangED
Green Light for AI: Transforming Education
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Join the ChangED team as we dive into the intersection of AI and education with Dr. MaryJo Yannacone, Superintendent of Springfield Township School District, as she shares her transformative journey integrating artificial intelligence into secondary education. Inspired by Matthew Ball's "Metaverse," Dr. Yannacone discusses how her district is pioneering AI implementation while maintaining academic integrity. Learn about their innovative "stoplight" system for AI usage, the integration of tools like ChatGPT and Brisk, and how they're empowering students to use AI as a supportive tool while developing their authentic voices.
About our guest:
In December 2020 Dr. Yannacone began her tenure as Superintendent of Schools for The School District of Springfield Township. Prior to that she served as Assistant Superintendent in the same district for two years, was a HS Principal for 15 years, and an English Teacher for 13 years. She is primarily focused on maintaining equitable access to student learning, raising expectations for student achievement, and developing a strategic vision for community engagement and commitment to public schools. A strong proponent of personalized learning and the importance of student, staff and community voice, Dr. Yannacone’s vision is to build a school community of growth and caring rooted in equitable practices.
https://youtu.be/e64r3_bjW5c
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welcome back to change ed changed. Change it the number one podcast, not only in montgomery county or carbon lehigh intermediate unit area well but also the greater philadelphia area just gets expanding.
Speaker 2I feel like it. Last time it was like everywhere. This time it's just Southeastern PA.
Speaker 1Well, what I meant was, like other podcasts are shutting down, it's almost like I mean our podcast. Oh, we're taking over. Monopoly yeah let's keep moving on. I'm the host of the show, Andrew Kuhn, education consultant from Montgomery County.
Speaker 2Self-elected host, by the way. Yes yes. It Self-elected host by the way, yes, yes. It was a nomination process, and with me is Patrice Semicek, also out of the Montgomery County.
Speaker 4Intermediate Unit and I am an EC. Ec, that's good. That's improved since last time. Thanks, and Tony Marabito from Carbon Lehigh Intermediate Unit, sdf. For those that are still wondering Staff development facilitator.
Speaker 1Every time. Yeah, that was one of our number one fan mail responses. What is SEF? So I'm glad we clarified that we have with us on today's show a super, super with us. Mary Jo Yannikone Welcome. Thank you Glad to have you from the Springfield Township School District here in Montgomery County.
Speaker 3Thank you, it's nice to be here.
Speaker 1Good to have you. Would you mind just introducing yourself a little bit? We know you from working with you and all the great things that are happening at Springfield Township, but if you wouldn't mind just introducing yourself to the ChangeEd Nation please.
Speaker 3Sure. Hello everyone in ChangeEd Nation. My name is Mary Jo Yannikone. I am the proud superintendent of the School District of Springfield Township in Montgomery County here in Orland, pennsylvania. This is my 34th year in education and my fourth year as the superintendent of the district. I've been in Springfield Township for a little over six years. I came in as an assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction in December of 2020, a fun time.
Speaker 3What a transition A nice transition, yes, yes, it's been exciting and fun and really happy in the role. Before this, I spent 15 years as a high school principal in Delaware County in the Longford Swarthmore School District at Strathaven High School Shout out to Strathaven, a great place as well and before that I taught high school English for 13 years oh no, in Marble Newtown School District High school English.
Speaker 2We're going to have to behave.
Speaker 3Tigers right. Tigers, orange and black, love them too. Great, great, great time in Marble Newtown.
Speaker 2I was a lion, we were orange and black too. Yeah, it's Halloween every day, every day.
Speaker 3Every day.
Speaker 1Well, mary Jo, I have actually been at Montgomery County Intermediate for four years as well and, as you know, that was part of the negotiation contract. I'm like, look, if you guys hire Mary Jo as a superintendent, then I will come to MCIU.
Speaker 2That was part of the negotiation, so I'm glad it worked out the clout this man thinks he has.
Speaker 4Oh boy, head barely fits through the room.
Speaker 2You should see the smell I do like his bow tie.
Speaker 3I do like his bow tie.
Speaker 2Oh no, it's going to get, his head's going to get.
Speaker 1Well, mary Jo, we've worked with you and we've been having lots of conversations with you about artificial intelligence, and it's taken over, not just conversations in education, but really everywhere. You know there's a lot of conversations about what is generative AI and what does it mean immediately, and then what does it mean moving forward in the future? And I'd love to get your perspective, especially from where you're at in your district. What do the conversations look like and what is the perception of AI from your standpoint?
Speaker 3Sure, I mean it's an exciting topic and, I will acknowledge, until the fall of 2022, I didn't know anything about artificial intelligence.
Speaker 3It wasn't on my radar at all. And I have a good friend who's in higher ed out in Connecticut and she introduced me to Matthew Ball's book Metaverse and how it's going to change everything and strongly encouraged me to read it and sort of get up to speed on AI and I can't say I enjoyed the book. It's a challenging read, it's a terrifying read. But it got me thinking about artificial intelligence in education and what we needed to do to start to get ready and that sort of got the ball rolling. And since then, that winter I introduced the book to my administrative team, really enjoyed conversations with them and then we introduced it to the staff a little over a year ago and I've been really energized and inspired by the approach of our staff K through 12, but in particular at the secondary level. The kind of risk-taking that our staff is willing to do to be innovative, to try things out and see how they change the way students learn and to be open to the technology has been fantastic.
Speaker 2So I have to ask, as a former English teacher, because we hear this all the time, especially in this specific discipline how do you think or what is your response to it? Sounds like your teachers are taking the ball and running with it, which is very exciting, because that is maybe even a misconception on our part. But ELA specifically seems to be the place where most teachers are like we need to figure out how to block it. We need to figure out so they're not cheating, so they're not this, they're not that. So how how are you handling that if that's happening? If not, do you think that the reading of the book has helped your teachers kind of push past that?
Speaker 3Well, I want to make sure I'm clear. The teachers weren't asked to read the book. I just introduced the subject to them using Matthew's book. But I will say I think it's an understandable fear of teachers that we have this unbelievably powerful new tool we don't know where. It's an understandable fear of teachers that we have this unbelievably powerful new tool. We don't know where it's headed.
Speaker 3You know how powerful it will become and I think it's understandable to want to support academic integrity and good ethics in our students and when, I was a high school English teacher, I taught academic integrity and how do we properly cite our sources and vet our sources, and it's what I've shared with our teachers, and we've been meeting on a regular basis since last winter to just talk about what are the concerns and challenges that they have. I think it's a it's a constant concern. This is just a different tool, yeah, you know, and so that's how we've approached it. I think it's a constant concern. This is just a different tool and so that's how we've approached it. This tool artificial intelligence, generative, ai, chat, gpt, co-pilot, whatever you're looking at has the same core ethical concerns, which is how do we teach students to properly vet sources, which is, how do we teach students to properly vet sources? How do we help them to triangulate sources? To use a doctoral word for you, andrew, you can definitely get rid of that.
Speaker 2Use that when you're getting used to it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3And how do we make sure that students understand that academic integrity is something worthwhile?
Speaker 2That's a big one.
Speaker 3It is.
Speaker 2It is Because it's so easy to throw it into chat GPT.
Speaker 3Let it spit something out for you and then okay, yeah, I'm done Exactly, and I think, I do think teenagers today, in my experience they want to have their own voice. They want to develop their own voice. They want to develop their own voice. So tapping into that and saying, look, it's true that you can pull down content, but why don't we use it as a brainstorming tool instead of something that is going to write your paper for you without your voice? And so that's sort of the approach we're taking.
Speaker 2I love that.
Speaker 3That doesn't mean the teachers aren't. They're vetting tools, like right now, our secondary teachers in ELA, in particular, are using Brisk. Oh, okay, and so they had asked us to pilot a few tools within the district, and one of them that they requested was Brisk, and we're having good feedback on the use of that, in particular in ELA.
Speaker 2I like that one too, because you can add that as a it's like an add-on.
Speaker 3So you can just pop it up. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2One of the things that you said made me think about my 10-year-old, and I'm sorry if I'm talking too much, but my 10-year-old, who has a writing difference disability we've been talking a lot about he's like. He's like Mom, can I just throw everything into chat, gpt? I don't know why I can't. Just I can just talk to it and it can put all the things that I'm saying into thoughts. And I said we've talked a lot about it at home and the conversation that we keep coming back to with my 10-year-old is you can put thoughts in there and it can help you, but it can't take away what you're thinking, because his storytelling is super fun. But when you put it all in there and just say, make this, it's not his story anymore.
Speaker 2And so I think, going back to what you're saying I try to relate it to he's very into his meta quest and creating videos in his meta quest for his YouTube channel, because he's going to be the next Mr Beast, because aren't all 10 year olds, yes. So I try to say to him like that, right, I think that's if we can get our kids to go there and say like you were saying about keeping your uniqueness and using it to help, maybe spur on an idea to create something. Or maybe I've said to him too, since your learning difference is hard for you to handle the mechanics, maybe you throw it in there and ask it to check your writing, not necessarily do the writing for you. So I'm hopeful for our kids and I'm hopeful for our teachers, because I think it could be really powerful and impactful and help save time. But, like you said, it is a different. It's just a different tool, it's another way of doing things.
Speaker 3Absolutely. I mean, when I think about what you know, what is the point of writing right? There are lots of different. You look at purpose and you look at audience and as long as our students are meeting those expectations, I'm happy that they understand and that they own what they're saying and what they're writing.
Speaker 3That's going to require integrity, right, personal integrity, because it's going to now become my voice, my authorship, my message, whether it's a speech or a paper or a project, and so if we can teach that to our students, I do think it's an unbelievably powerful tool.
Speaker 4Mary Jo, you're in such a unique position because you have to serve your students, your teachers, your admin, but also you have to deal with school board and community and parents as well. So have you had any conversations around policy or things like that and communicating with all of those constituents for lack of a better term around AI, and how do you kind of go about that and navigate that?
Implementing AI Guidelines and Policies
Speaker 3Sure. So what we decided to do? I met with my director of technology a little over a year ago and talked about the fact that I wanted us the two of us to get up to speed on artificial intelligence. Let's get educated ourselves. So the first thing we did was attend a three-day conference out in Kutztown that AJ Giuliani put on.
Speaker 4Oh, it's great.
Speaker 3You know a lot of information. It was at times inspiring, at times overwhelming, but it was a great three days and we brought one of our technology coaches as well to join us. And then we surveyed the entire staff and so last December we asked what do you know about AI, how are you feeling about it, what are your fears, what are you hoping it can do for you? Where are you in your exploration of the resources that are out there? And once we had that information, we were able to start meeting with a core team of educators, counselors, psychologists, nurses. We started meeting with staff members to say what are you hoping for out of this and what kinds of policy can we develop? And then I had somebody say to me a little while ago the best teachers are the best thieves. And so we went to teach AI Right, which had some fantastic resources, and AJ had shared that with us.
Speaker 3And we pulled down a draft policy and just started to work with that committee and for over a period of five months we were able to draft guidelines and recommendations while we waited for PSBA to bring forward policy. And we shared those guidelines and recommendations in May of this year with our staff. They were collaboratively developed and they were focused on the staff. We didn't look at student use just yet, we just looked at staff use. And then, thankfully, over the summer, when PSBA released 815.1 and they had used TJI as their core source, we had significant alignment between our recommendations and guidelines and the new recommended state policy. So we've adopted that policy. We adopted it in early September. It is the guiding force for us and currently we're using that committee that initially developed recommendations and guidelines. Using that committee that initially developed recommendations and guidelines. We've used that committee now to vet potential tools. So we're currently piloting in our second year. We did a six-month pilot, so we've jumped on with Magic School and BRESC. Right now we're holding tight with those two resources and letting our teachers get acclimated.
Speaker 3That's awesome, and our board has been tremendously supportive. They understand the significance of artificial intelligence. They are professionals themselves, they're seeing it in their own fields, and so we've had nothing but support.
Speaker 1I'm so fascinated by this on so many levels. I have not read Matthew Ball's book, I just bought it, okay.
Speaker 2It's on my Kindle now.
Speaker 1The thing that is really resonating with me right now is that this is such a pivotal moment for us and an opportunity for us to be leaders in this space as an educational institution. What is in my mind right now is that there are so many things where, when we talk to individuals who've been around for a while, they're like oh, I wish I had had invested in Apple when they came out with that iPhone.
Speaker 2I wish I had and I feel like.
Speaker 1That's what the AI is going to be, where, like man, I wish I had invested in that, when, when it was there, when I could get into it earlier, when I could have could have been part of that, and I think that it's important for us as an educational institution to have a very strong, well-established philosophy when it comes to AI and the use of AI, and I love the stance that you've taken and really I feel like, in the superintendent position, you have this opportunity to really be a conduit of possibilities. Let's just have the conversation right. Let's have the dialogue. Who knows where it's going to go? But opening up the doors to possibilities through conversation, I think, is such a powerful tool and really you know that the way you're going about it, AI has the ability to bring us together. We could let it divide us if we let it, but you're allowing it to bring each other together.
Speaker 3Well, and I think I appreciate that, and I think one of the things that our staff have adopted as practice and this is something that both our middle school and our high school teachers are using readily is something that we learned in that workshop that AJ brought forward, which is a stoplight metaphor for the use of AI, and teachers really found this accessible and they're finding it effective. And so red light no AI is allowed to be used for this particular assignment. Yellow light you can use AI. Yellow light you can use AI, but the final product is yours, and I want you to vet what you're using with me as your teacher. And then green light go wild. Find out what you can find out within the filters we have for you, yeah, yeah yeah, but go ahead and see what you can find out.
Speaker 3And just using that simple stoplight metaphor, part of the reason why some of our teachers really enjoyed that approach is we're communicating clearly to students our expectations and we're explaining why is this a red light assignment? Because I really want to hear your voice. This is a personal essay. It's not something where I want you pulling down some sort of cohesive list of possible personal statement topics. Instead, I want to really hear you. So let's do some work and I'm going to give you some time to brainstorm on your own, but no use of AI. And then other times hey, is it really true that AI could cure cancer? Let's see where it is. Go ahead, go find out what's out there. And so I think, depending on the topic, being really clear with students about and communicating those expectations and reinforcing the why is essential as we continue to use these tools.
Speaker 2And I think it's important too, because you're allowing kids to know that it's not never. We're not saying that you can never use this tool. We're saying that there are points in which we who are still learning about it, and you who are still learning about it, think that it's best that we want to try it on our own first, because I think sometimes we, like Andrew said the lock it and block it, like it's either all or nothing. I mean, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.
Speaker 2So I really love that, and I'm definitely going to have to look more into what AJ has got written up about that stoplight.
Speaker 3Yeah, and I also. You know. I want to acknowledge we're doing the same with our staff from an administrative standpoint. Here are the ways in which you can use AI in your classroom. You know? Here are the ways in which you can use AI in your classroom. You know, years ago there were conversations about teachers pay teachers.
Speaker 2Is this okay?
Speaker 3Am I allowed to use this resource? And our approach is you can use a resource if it will help you to help our students to be more effective communicators, stronger critical thinkers, et cetera. When we look at our profile of a graduate, those core skills that's what we're looking for, and so if the tool is effective in helping you get there, then you can use it. I would say that right now, the area where we're being more cautious is in the use of it for things like writing IEPs or writing some draft documents that typically would be vetted through legal, and so we want to make sure that we're protecting our students, protecting our staff and the district, making sure that any resources that we use are vetted sufficiently for safety, and so we're also sort of giving that red light, yellow light, green light to our staff. And, again, with our staff, one of the things I shared as I went to our director of technology and I met with each of our faculties last winter, spring, early spring, and we shared just an overview of where we feel we are with AI and answered questions, and one of the things that I shared is you need to keep in mind that you are still ultimately responsible for anything that you put in front of students.
Speaker 3That's always been the case, right, it's always been the case. If you present a particular article, vet in that article, and why are you presenting that article? What is the rationale for using that as a resource? It's no different when you pull information from AI. You're responsible for making sure that the information is accurate, and so it can be an efficiency tool for a teacher. It can help you to personalize work for students. In particular, our teachers, our occupational therapists, physical therapists, our nurses, our special education teachers see tremendous potential for personalization and differentiation using AI, and we want to allow them to do that to meet the needs of every student. But we also want them to keep in mind that they need to make sure that what they're presenting is truthful.
Embracing AI in Education
Speaker 1They need to make sure that what they're presenting is truthful. You know, what I'm hearing from you, Mary Jo, that I actually haven't really heard from others before, is that you're making this communal. This is like we're going to do this together, and from what you were talking about with the traffic light analogy is like it's also purposeful, right, Like this is a moment where we're going to, we're going to dive into this work together. We're going to put the rest aside and we're going to go in together. Let's use it as a resource or we can dive in. I think a lot of it again comes back to that having a strong philosophy and what role we play as individuals, what role technology can play for us in that. And it was John Spencer who, in his book he talked about being human-centered with technology infused, not being technology-centered with technology infused, not being technology-centered with humans infused. I'm hearing that perspective play out as you're sharing and talking.
Speaker 3Absolutely, and I'm glad to hear that you hear Spencer, because that was the other book study that our administrative team last summer. We read Spencer's Vintage Innovation. Oh, that's one of my favorites.
Speaker 2That's great.
Speaker 3Fantastic resource and last year we utilized Spencer's book and the whole mindset around taking the best of all available tools, not being afraid of what the future holds, really embracing the opportunities of the future while holding on to the tools, the vintage tools that work right. There are still many ways in which paper and pencil actual builds. You know, design build projects have a tremendous impact on student learning. We have a project at our middle school where the kids do Rube Goldberg machines.
Speaker 1That's awesome.
Speaker 3It's all hands-on, right, that's all design built, but they learn a lot about physics and a lot about teamwork and collaboration from that project.
Speaker 2So we believe in vintage innovation and AI is just another example of merging that future opportunity with what I'm learning. Let's go deeper here. Let's do this together. So I deeply appreciate what you're doing, not only for Springfield Township, but you're helping pull Montgomery County along in this area. So I feel thankful that you're willing to be on this podcast to talk to us, because I do deeply appreciate your willingness to bring people in and bring people along. It's very obvious that that's part of just who you are. So I just wanted to say that.
Speaker 4I also wanted to mention I appreciate that you never mentioned like fear or afraid of using anything, like you just kind of dove in. You wanted to learn about it first, obviously, and then you carried through with it. You never mentioned any of the negative aspects, because there can be. You know the cheating aspect and all of that, but I love that you were never afraid to take that first step. So thank you for that. That's very refreshing to know and that your leadership can hopefully others can reflect that as well.
Speaker 3Well, I mean, I appreciate first of all, I appreciate, patrice the positive feedback it's nice to hear. And, tony, you know, sometimes I think this can sound trite, but we do look at these tools. As you know, they can be a tool or a weapon, right? Well, there's the big conversation right now about cell phones. Cell phones can be a tool or a weapon, and I think the core of it is the ethical treatment of any resource and helping students and staff to understand how important ethics is.
Speaker 3Academic integrity is, integrity is if we, if we grow good people, then we will use these as tools and not weapons and will help to grow adults who are good citizens. I mean, it's in our mission statement is developing good citizenship. So for me it's not the last. I'm sure there'll be other tools that will come that can also be used as a weapon, right, nuclear energy can be a tool or a weapon, right, and so I'm sure there'll be other tools that will come that can also be used as a weapon, right, nuclear energy can be a tool or a weapon, and so I'm all about and as far as teamwork is concerned, I'm very fortunate.
Speaker 3I believe in teamwork. I was an athlete that's where it started for me as a young kid and I'm really, really fortunate to work with some amazing professionals.
Speaker 2You do tend to snag all the good people. You got a lot of good people over there.
Speaker 3I hope that we continue to draw great people in Springfield Absolutely.
Speaker 1Mary Jo, as we're wrapping up this show, which is fantastic. Thank you for coming on and a lot more that we could talk to you but, we appreciate hearing your philosophy and it's also a breath of fresh air to know that. But we appreciate hearing your philosophy and it's it's like it's a. It's also a breath of fresh air to know that others are having these same conversations and I guarantee you that people are going to start referencing this, just like you were ever seeing AJ Giuliani.
Speaker 2They're going to say that podcast with Mary Jo on that amazing show. When she said amazing show.
Speaker 1So we'd like to give you a second to last, final thought for the show, anything that you would like to revisit or share, or something you didn't get to say, that you would like to say about how amazing this show is. Go ahead.
Speaker 3Well, I appreciate. The only thing maybe that I would share that might be fun for you guys is I didn't listen to a single podcast until the beginning of this summer.
Speaker 2Oh, at all.
Speaker 3I didn't listen to a single podcast until the beginning of this summer. Oh so I enjoyed being. I mean, I've enjoyed the last half an hour with you guys on this podcast I had. I listened to my first podcast in June. I listened to Julia Louis Dreyfus. Oh yeah, I heard that's a good one yeah Podcast because my serious broken my car and I found myself moving to Spotify and listening to podcasts, and so I really have started to enjoy what's out there in the in the world of podcasts.
Speaker 3Thank you for adding to the conversation.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 3Thanks.
Speaker 4There's this up and coming, one called change ed. Make sure you like and subscribe.
Speaker 3I'm going to like and subscribe. I'm gonna like and subscribe to change it.
Speaker 2It'll be fantastic, even if it's just for one episode, because really that's right once you've heard one. You've heard them all.
Speaker 1I'm just kidding I really, truly appreciate you taking the time to be here and be with us, and one of the things that really stood out to me was something you had said about teachers, pay teachers. And the reason that that stood out to me was something you had said about teachers, pay teachers. And the reason that that stood out to me is because I think a lot of what we experience in life is about perspective and that we can sometimes only see, you know, as as as high as we've gone on the mountaintop, we can only see that far, but then you know if there were clouds that were like oh, the mountain actually goes higher and we can go a little bit higher and see a little bit further. And so where I'm going with that is that right now, generative AI is the big issue. It's the big thing that we're talking about, but now that we see how things can flow and how they can go and it is a world of possibilities not that it hasn't been before, but now it's really a world of possibilities In a few years I didn't even want to write down a timeframe the conversation is going to be different to where generative AI will be more like teachers, pay teachers.
Speaker 1We're like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not the issue now. Now we're concerned about something different, and so what's exciting about that is again, within those possibilities, there is space for everybody and we just have to have the conversations and the willingness to enter into them and look at both sides. Right, there's plenty of reasons why we shouldn't even be talking about AI and there are so many more reasons why we should be so much farther than we are, and in a lot of ways, it can always be a checks and balances, so we don't go too fast. We're kind of like how do we again involving everyone? So, and I think one of the important things for each person as they dive into AI and they look into it is to know who they are and to know what matters to them so that they can kind of ground themselves as they get into that space philosophy of being human focused and technology infused.
Speaker 1So know who you are as a person, be true to yourself, as you were saying that the ethical use of resources, knowing what those are, so that you can lean on that as a lighthouse as you're venturing out into the ocean of AI.
Speaker 2Oh wow, that's a lot of analogies there.
Speaker 3An extended metaphor. Yes, oh no, I forgot you were an English teacher.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, Thank you Major.
Speaker 3You're welcome.
Fun Banter and Gratitude in Podcast
Speaker 1So again, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for all the work you do and for being one of our number one fans on Change it. Please remember to all of our listeners to like, subscribe and share this episode.
Speaker 2Wow, two times in a row you remembered the words yeah, great ending.
Speaker 1But the way we record it, it'll be so spread out that people will be like what are you talking about? Last time you botched it, that's true. You really tied it all together well, thank you.
Speaker 2Oh man, you complimented his bow tie Now you're giving him compliments about how Mary Jo, is my favorite.
Speaker 3I don't give him a B plus on his metaphor. That's true. I will take that.
Speaker 1You're breaking up, mary Jo, we can't hear you anymore.
Speaker 2B plus on his metaphor. That makes me happy.
Speaker 4Me too. That's going to go on a frame.
Speaker 1It's going on. A frame Intercoon has B plus metaphors.
Speaker 3That feels good, that feels right too thank you so much for giving up your time and missing your. It was my pleasure. You guys are fun to talk with, thank you. Thank you. Now I have to go back and like and subscribe.