ChangED
ChangED is an educator based podcast for Pennsylvania teachers to learn more about the PA STEELS Standards and science in general. It is hosted by Andrew Kuhn and Patrice Semicek.
ChangED
Empowering Education: Innovative Strategies for Teacher and Student Success
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Curious how schools can save thousands on educational tools without compromising quality? Join us as we chat with Keith Royer, an Instructional Technology Specialist from Lancaster-Lebanon IU 13, who has mastered the art of negotiating better deals with educational vendors. Also, discover the game-changing potential of the station rotation model in education. Hear how this model has organically grown within schools through voluntary teacher participation and peer recommendations, supported by ongoing coaching and practical checklists. Learn how these dynamic methods can revitalize traditional teaching techniques, boosting both student engagement and achievement.
Want to send us a show idea or just say hi? Email us at: thechangedpodcast@gmail.com!
Vendor Partnerships in Education
Speaker 1Welcome back to Change. Ed Changed Changed your number one podcast for educators by educators, changing the landscape of education one podcast at a time. I am your favorite host, andrew Kuhn, educational consultant from Montgomery County Intermediate Unit, and here with me is Patrice Semecek, also out of the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit and still an educational consultant.
Speaker 2Holding strong on that job Holding strong and I just realized I need to speak louder because I'm a quiet mouse.
Speaker 3Thank you for sharing that information and also with us, our co-host Tony Marabito Carbon, Lehigh Intermediate Unit Staff Development Facilitator.
Speaker 1Today, as always, we have a guest on our show. We are super excited to have a guest who comes from an IU that we've had other guests From the Lancaster Lebanon. Am I saying that right?
Speaker 4I don't know, Lebanon Lancaster.
Speaker 1Lebanon IU 13. Some would say the best IU in the state. Some would say that Wow.
Speaker 3That's what I've heard. Am I saying that right? I don't know. I don't know. Lebanon, lebanon, lancaster, lebanon.
Speaker 1IU 13.
Speaker 3Some would say the best IU in the state Some would say that, wow, yes, that's what I've heard.
Speaker 1I have heard that as well. What's exciting about this guest is that he does not have the last name, zimmerman, which is previously I was even going to point that out. That is a. That was the first. We're breaking down barriers.
Speaker 4Yeah, there's more of us that exist there that aren't Zimmermans.
Speaker 1Aren't Zimmermans, not Zimmermans Really.
Speaker 2Okay, we heard that was not the case.
Speaker 1We've been lied to.
Speaker 2In Change and Nation. Change and Nation.
Speaker 1Okay, Well a man who needs no introduction in the IU world, but we will introduce him to the Change and Nation. Keith Royer from Lancaster, Lebanon.
Speaker 4Is it Lebanon or Lebanon Depends where you're from. I grew up in that area. Lebanon is what people say. Lebanon is usually reserved for the country.
Speaker 3It's like Bethlehem Bethlehem Similar Amish, amish yeah.
Speaker 1I've never heard someone call him amish before that's probably the thing that gets me the most nervous is saying that I use name right, the lancaster part, I'm fine, but then when you get the other l word, it's like it all falls apart, it's iu13 I'm literally sweating right now I'm sweating. Iu13 keith, so great to have you here. Thank you for being here. Would you mind just introducing yourself to the Change Aid Nation, maybe what you do and why you came to this amazing podcast?
Speaker 4Sure, Absolutely Amazing podcast. Definitely it's a long-time listener, first-time speaker. Thanks.
Speaker 1I'm excited for that. Yes, it's good to have you.
Speaker 4Keith Royer. I'm an Instructional Technology Specialist at IU13. So short title compared to a lot of your other guests who I feel probably sit on a pedestal while I sit on this chair, while I'm here.
Speaker 1We had to remove the golden chair, so yeah, super excited to be on.
Speaker 4I'm, you know, honored to be a guest on here.
Speaker 1Well, thank you, keith. We were talking about it earlier before we started recording that you also are a person who wears a lot of hats and has a lot of impact on things that are happening in the state that people might not know about. They're just opportunities that come along and I'm wondering if you could tell us about. Well, it's really it's in partnerships that we have with programs and organizations that are focused on education. I'm wondering if you can kind of tell us about those partnerships and maybe what is the impact when it comes all the way down to the classroom teacher. How is it impacting your work, impacting the classroom teacher?
Speaker 4Sure, we'll kind of go back to how I got started in vendor partnerships. Let's go back to 1980. I was a little boy and now we're not going to go back that far.
Speaker 1I was like, here we go, good story.
Speaker 2Good story, good story.
Speaker 4So I was a classroom teacher for 15 years fourth and fifth grade, became an instructional coach after that and during my time as an instructional coach, coming out of COVID, there were a lot of programs that people were using, teachers were using, and there were some that I'm like. These are phenomenal programs and some of the prices, as you know, when districts look for prices, some prices are really high and it prices people out of what they can afford. And if these products are that good, there's got to be a way that we can collectively have power to bring those prices down. So we came out of that. I was like, well, I'm just an instructional coach at district, but I'm gonna reach out to these companies and see if they'll get things cheaper. Why not make the effort? What's the worst?
Speaker 4they can say yeah no so I am a deal finder a hundred percent, like you can ask any of my close friends if they're looking for something. They call me first. They're like hey, I'm looking for a new water heater. I'd be like oh, I just bought a new water heater, not long ago I just did this with cabinets.
Speaker 3Call this person cabinets. I asked them about nintendo switches yeah, people look for tvs like.
Speaker 4I know you've researched tvs. Tell me what tv like it doesn't matter what it is. I search in honda barton. You can ask my family, they'll tell you that top down these contact information.
Speaker 2The show notes yeah if you're looking for a water heater, washer, dryer? Hey, why?
Speaker 4not. So I started reaching some of these companies and they were like oh sure, well, let's, let's see what we can do. What are you looking to do? We'll try something out. We haven't done anything like this before, or we have with bigger, but let's try to work something out. So I did that with a few companies when I was instructional coach. Then I went to the iu and I was like well, I could do that in a district, why can't I do it for all of the schools in Lancaster, lebanon, iu 13 area.
Speaker 4So, we have 22 public districts plus our non-public. Let's see if we can get better pricing for our districts that are using it. I can say, out of our districts, half are using this or 75% are using that. What can we do to help all of our districts? To help support you as a vendor, but to also support our districts and our districts that don't have this amazing and wonderful tool that they could get it.
Speaker 4So I started doing some of the same partnerships at the IU level. Then now here at Pames, and you know, our vendor partnership kind of serves as the Department of Ed Tech in PA, because we don't have that. So getting into that group I was like oh, I did some of this before. You know, let's continue. Somehow it went from like, hey, I'm gonna reach out to one or two companies and now, like nine of the 15, I, you know, deal with those vendor partnerships. But it's the same thing Like how can we leverage a partnership that benefits these amazing vendors that we vet?
Speaker 4and say this is something good for everybody. How can we benefit from from having you at a consortium pricing or something like that to get a cheaper for our districts? But then we, as I use, can now market to all of our districts. You know it's, you know, you you're whether you're a teacher, administrator or whatever you get these emails from companies and what's the first thing you do? You're like out more. I get enough emails. Delete, delete, delete.
Speaker 4So our districts come to us, as I use as our, as educational service agencies, and say, hey, here's a product that we're looking for. Do you have anything that does this? And if we can say, hey, we have a partnership with this. This and this here are three options you have, but you can get better pricing through those. So now we're marketing to our districts on products that we vetted and they're not just out there randomly searching for things that they have. So I feel like it's our benefit statewide to have these consortiums and we know our districts are using these products. So why not start involving these vendors and creating some of these partnerships where we benefit and they benefit?
Speaker 3I think it's a great point to point out to our teachers, to our listeners, to our admin out there that if you have not reached out to your IU yet, do so please, because I'm sure that they could find you a better price, a better deal than what you're currently doing on your own, because that's part of our jobs, right? So make sure you reach out to your IUs.
Speaker 1You know it makes me think of and correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm wrong, correct me offline. So it sounds like I'm right on the podcast. It reminds me of Costco in a way, like you're getting member pricing for being part of this bigger group.
Speaker 2No free ads.
Speaker 1It reminds me of Osco Cost. That's my first free ad in like 32 months. It's not bad.
Speaker 4I understand the Costco analogy, okay, thank, you it actually works out well because you think of it as bulk, right? You're buying in bulk, so you're getting it at a lower cost than if you just went to a regular store. This store, that store, whatever the store would be. Mentioning no store's names because I don't want to you know, no free ads. No free ads, thank you or you can go to this one bulk store and buy it all at once in a larger quantity at a lower cost.
Speaker 1Knowing you're already getting the best price.
Speaker 4Right, and that's what we're trying to do with our vendor partnership. We're trying to get our districts those best prices on those best products.
Speaker 1Something else you mentioned, though. You mentioned the vetting out process, and I think that's really important in this as well. While price is a significant factor because we're trying to get to as many schools as we can, save them money so they can invest it back into their students and have have those funds to push along education there is a I'm going to say multi-point vetting process that you go through to make sure it's a good partnership for on both sides. Right, it needs to be a win-win, not just a win for one side or win for the others correct right, absolutely, yeah, I mean that's part of what it is saying.
Empowering Teachers Through Student-Centered Learning
Speaker 4You know we've gone through this process. We've asked xyz questions as we go through to make sure that this is going to be beneficial if, if you're a vendor partner and you want, want, want, want, I want to be part of this, I want to be part of that conference, I want to do this, but they're not willing to give anything that benefits our schools and our teachers and, ultimately, our students. You know that's what we're here for. So if we can't make that partnership work, you know that's something we we look at. I love negotiating stuff like I'll negotiate anything. What did you teach prior?
Speaker 2to this elementary wise fourth and fifth grade mostly yeah oh, they're fun to negotiate, oh yeah, and I can. You know, you can convince kids anything right, absolutely, they'll push back a little bit. That's what I liked about that right.
Speaker 4I had a great relationship with kid like I'm a relationship person, so you know whether they're kids, adults. You know my mom used to say when I was doing teaching she's like oh, no wonder you want to teach elementary school. You act just like those kids. I used to hear that all the time.
Speaker 1Seems about right well, I think what's really neat about what you're talking about is that you are negotiating for this huge body of individuals who don't even know that it's happening, but it's impacting the educational careers and experiences of so many people, and it's that's. That's what's neat to see. Is that here, here's this right, we've gone through the process, we've done the homework for you. This, this checks out.
Speaker 3Go ahead and embrace it and be part of that yeah, some of the pedagogical work that you've done at IU 13 I've been very impressed with, especially station rotation model. That was actually able to attend and I would love to bring back to to my IU eventually. But could you talk about that model, what you do? Some schools that have changed because the one school, that little teaser here, the early grade levels, elementary primary. Some of these students aren't in necessary grade level but they are moving from one content area to the next, like not being bound by. I'm in first grade, I'm in second grade. Anyway, I'll let you talk about it, but it's very cool.
Speaker 4Yeah, so it's part of our kind of student-centered learning series that we run and one of the things we start with is station rotation and it's not just an elementary thing, and I think that's one thing that sometimes it's a little hard to get across because you hear station rotation.
Speaker 4And high school teachers are like oh station rotation, stations, centers, which it is absolutely not that. So it's a way to hone in those skills. And with station rotation we talk about three modalities of learning. We talk about the small group direct, differentiated instruction, independent work and collaborative work. It's things teachers do as part of teaching all the time, but it's a way to take your vertical lesson plan and turn it horizontal.
Speaker 4So now you have these kids working in all these different groups and you have kids who flourish working with teachers. They love to sit with the teacher and work with the teacher. You have kids who flourish working independently. They love it. They have kids who work with others and other peers and they really love that. But they have, like everybody else, kids have days where they're like I don't want to sit with a teacher today. Well, they only have to do that for a short period of time because they're going to rotate through multiple things. So we're hitting these multiple modalities and we're hitting on all the pieces that teachers know. That's good best practice in the classroom, from small group instruction to that collaborative working on the social skills that kids need.
Speaker 4And the whole idea is this is your stepping stone to personalized learning, which is what, tony, you were getting at a little earlier, where you're not necessarily bound by that grade level.
Speaker 4It's more of a learning path and student agency where they have power in their own learning and they're going through. Okay, here are all the standards I need to do, here are the standards I need to accomplish, and as they work their way through, they're monitoring their their own learning through this process. So it's just great to see teachers take some of that mindset, because I mean, even as a teacher, sometimes you just need a break. You don't want to stand up there for 45 minutes and talk about something, so why not give a quick little? Here's an overview. I'm going to work with my small groups. I'm going to differentiate my groups and now I can differentiate my teaching much better. I can get through content much better. You know, it's just a different way of looking at what you already do in the classroom to benefit both you as the teacher and the achievement that you get out of the students that you're working with.
Speaker 2How are you motivating teachers to try this? Is a very scary idea if you're used to a stand and deliver process, so how are you motivating teachers to even begin to try this kind of concept in terms of multiple modalities?
Speaker 4Yeah. So one of the things that I really like about this is when we present this to our districts. It's totally voluntary for teachers. So you know, we sit down and go through all of the parts of it and the teachers have the option to attend or not attend, and usually we'll get one or two, three, four, sometimes a couple out of a grade level different grade levels that'll attend. And as they attend and start seeing what things are there, then they're like, oh, you should really attend this. And then they tell the other teachers and it just organically grows Because, like anything in school, if an administrator comes up to you and says, hey, you're going to go do this, then you don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 4So it's the organic growth from teachers that are seeing these positive results in their classroom through increased student engagement, increased student achievement, and they're seeing all these results. So they're just letting others know hey, this is what I'm seeing, this is what I'm doing, and it's growing. And then we support it with coaching in the classroom. So the teachers have a checklist of things to try, things to do in their classroom, and we follow up with them Like, how can we support you? Can we help you? Let's plan together, let's co-teach together whatever they need to help support them, and then we give the administrators, the the instructional leadership tools to go into the classroom and support them with what they're doing in the classroom specifically too that's awesome.
Speaker 3When I was at that training one of the teachers, it was unbelievable to listen to kindergarten, first grade and the students were bringing up. They would meet in their small groups. They whatever content standard they were on that day they knew exactly where that folder was, they knew exactly what small group they were in and as soon as they passed to that they were able to move on and they knew exactly where to go from there. So if a student was struggling with single digit counting, whatever, they would stay on that group until they were ready to move on. But they owned their own and hearing that from a teacher was just unbelievable.
Speaker 2And as low as kindergarten right. So if a kindergarten student can do it, your middle schoolers and high schoolers should be able to, with a little bit of obviously a little bit of scaffolding and supports and training. You've got to train kids to be able to do all of these things, but that's phenomenal.
Speaker 4And the biggest benefit you see is, as these teachers are doing like in a kindergarten, if that first grade teacher is running that same rotational framework in their classroom, they have the benefit of the students already knowing what they're doing right?
Speaker 2yeah, absolutely you don't have to take the first six weeks to figure it out. That's amazing.
Speaker 3So how many of your districts have bought in and are doing this now?
Speaker 4you mentioned 22 right, so so this started with Ken Zimmerman Back in the day. You may know him.
Speaker 1I've heard of it, zimmerman, he's been on two.
Speaker 2He may have mentioned this in one of them.
Speaker 4Back in 2012, I believe it was when they started and I think our list of districts, not just in IU13, we have districts that expand out from there but within the 22 public school districts we have, I mean at some point. I'd say at least 16 of them have been through some of that.
Speaker 2Wow, that's awesome. That's awesome, phenomenal. Awesome work so good for kids.
Speaker 1You know what's fascinating about it as well. What I really love about it is that you're exposing you're scaffolding for students in a way that's not just dependent on you doing that. You're putting them in scenarios where they can be continuing to reinforce this learning. Patricia shared a really interesting statistic the other day five thousand.
Speaker 2No, we were talking. We were talking. He was making me. It takes a lot of repetition to remember something we're gonna end. We're not gonna leave this in here, right? Because you were telling me that I was slow, no, and that it took me multiple repetitions never say that, change it number one multiple repetitions to remember.
Speaker 1Something was that did you make that statistic up, or is it really?
Speaker 2I don't know what the exact number is. It's like a lot, yeah, because like kids need to hear it like a lot of times it, because kids need to hear it a lot of times. It's like thousands of times. I think it's 2,000 maybe, but for me, since I'm so slow, according to you it's five.
Speaker 3I heard that with athletics it's 100 hours of doing a certain task. Then you become better than average.
Speaker 2There's like a number.
Speaker 1Regardless of what it is, I thought you were fact-check, so this allows for that in a unique way where the teacher doesn't feel like I'm just saying the same thing over and, over and over again. You're changing it up. You're also engaging the learner and you're reengaging the educator in a lot of ways as well. Right, it doesn't look the same.
Speaker 3And I'm guilty of this as well. You have certain content standards to cover and by the end of the year you have to get through them right. In that model you're not holding any student back because they can just flourish and go as fast as they want, but you're also not just going to the next lesson because it's time for the next lesson. You can really work one-on-one with those students in that small group to get kids caught up. And I think that's where a lot with my elementary background, that's where I missed and I wish I could help more.
Speaker 4Yeah, and when I had my classroom, I started with station rotation, moved to a little more of personalized learning. And you find out, we talk about formative assessment all the time. But when you're running something like this, formative assessment is essential for students. And it gets to the point where, when I was teaching fourth grade, it gets to the point where I'm giving pre-tests just a few questions just to get an idea of where they're at. So they kind of know like, hey, here's a preview of what's coming up.
Speaker 4And I used to put bins out and say how many do you think you got right on that? And they'd self-evaluate as they go through pre-tests and I'd say, okay, who needs to help? Two-digit by two-digit multiplication. And then they'd self-assess themselves. They'd come up yeah, you still have kids that are like, oh, I don't need any help. But you know they need help also and you get them at another time. But just getting them to go through that process, that metacognition of like here's what I know, here's what I think I know, here's what I need help with years old, is amazing. Yeah, talk about student agency and buying.
Speaker 1Yeah, I was going to say that's very empowering.
Speaker 2The adults that these kids are going to be, just because they have the ability to think about their teaching.
Speaker 4I thought you were going to say because they had me as a teacher, or that too, yes that was the next thing that was going to come out of my mouth.
Speaker 1You read her mind, yeah.
Speaker 2You're that good.
Speaker 1So, keith, we really appreciate having you on the show and all that you shared with us we would like to extend to you as a regular listener of the show. You know this is a great honor that we'd like to give you the second-to-last final word here it is. I was wondering when that was coming.
Speaker 2It's like the gauntlet when it's like boom.
Speaker 1Second-to-last Are there any final thoughts that you want to share with us, or wisdom? Are there any final thoughts that you want to share with us, or wisdom? Things that maybe you didn't get to say, but you'd like to tell us about your perspective on education, things that you've seen, things that you're excited about?
Speaker 4I feel like we accomplished a lot here in that short period of time, kind of two episodes in one. It was like a bonus Speed dating yeah, you get this one, you get that one.
Speaker 1But I think you know oh yeah, like that came up with this key. Yeah, let's get you a deal, let's go all right.
Speaker 4Who needs a tv? All right, you guys look like you need some new equipment. What?
Speaker 1do you need? I mean, let me find it for you.
Speaker 4But but now I mean, I'm just excited and passionate. Passionate about what we're allowing teachers to do, not just with what we do, what our team does with student-centered learning, but also with things that are happening. And I know you're big with the steals and phenomena-based learning, but putting all that together in one package, I mean, the ultimate beneficiary is our students and that's no matter where you're at in education. That's what we're all here for anyway.
Speaker 2I love that.
Speaker 1Well said sir Mic drop.
Speaker 3No, he still has to get his thought in, I know.
Speaker 4Everybody's holding their breath.
Speaker 1Well, again thank you for coming on. You are a wonderful human being who does amazing work and we appreciate all that you do, seen and unseen, because clearly we've heard in this podcast that you are doing both.
Global Outreach and Expansion
Speaker 1So thank you for coming on and on behalf of the entire change ed podcast, changed team change it thank you for tuning in as and being such a wonderful group of podcast listeners who are so committed to all the wonderful things that we have to say, and we want to remind you that we are more powerful and impactful together. And then I lost where I was going with that Be like Costco, be like.
Speaker 3Costco. We're going to empower our students, okay.
Speaker 4That's it the end. By the way, you're gonna get a whole new set of listeners after this one too. Like the panhandle of oklahoma, that's my people yeah, oh, we're expanding across the states man. Eight, eight, eight more people, that's eight more than we had.
Speaker 3I'll take that south dakota oklahoma panhandle just checked today Asia.
Speaker 2Asia.
Speaker 3Particularly one listener In Iran, andrew. Thank you, and also Africa, libya.
Speaker 1Look at that we are expanding. Impressive. So I gotta wrap this up, I gotta land this Plane.
Speaker 2Take all that out. I just said that.